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Thread Title:

Cat 3406B Grey/Black Smoke

Created On Thursday September 24, 2009 20:03

Willie

Posts: 8
Joined: Sep 2009

Thursday September 24, 2009 20:03

Just had an inframe on my 92 Ford LTL 9000. Turbo was okay, and left alone. (mech recommendation) Head checked out okay, and left alone. No injector work either. Nice to have a new engine, but am having a smoke problem. It smokes constantly while under any load, more of a grey color until you push into it, then it turns black. Thought it was the AFRC valve diaphram, but found that the valve itself was not staying cocked, so replaced valve, and set inj pump timing. $800 later, still smoked. Checked turbo and found some slight resistance, but have now ruled out any issues with that. It whines nicely, and can feel the power boost upon acceleration. Smoke was not an issue before overhaul, but has now become the money pit. Need advice......Thanks.

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We Dig The Dirty Work

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westcoast

Posts: 982
Joined: Dec 2008

Thursday September 24, 2009 22:40

Check to make sure the correct comp seals for injectors were used , check air cleaner and intake for restriction , make sure boost line for frc is not cracked , air comp intake hose - was a good overhead done - were the valves checked for leakage ? If you did,nt have a problem before your looking at something that was moved/ changed / replaced at the time of in frame . Does it idle smooth and is it smooth and constant through the rev range ? Regards David

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detroit

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Willie

Posts: 8
Joined: Sep 2009

Thursday September 24, 2009 23:02

Air cleaner is new, all hoses and connections through air/air are good, and tight. It idles nice, revs smooth all the way up. Power doesn't seem too bad, although not any better than with 2 scored pistons before overhaul. Just has this smoke with any foot pressure while on highway. Doesn't smoke at idle or even when you crack throttle from an idle. But has a grey look while driving, and then black if you get on it. Black is worse when you first step it down, and then fades to grey. ?? I dunno, got me all twisted up, can't get solid answers from mechs. They all thought the AFRC was going to be the answer. Then they said that a new turbo would be the answer....I'm confident of the turbo doing fine since I can hear it, and feel it. I'm leaning toward injector seals or injectors. They will check seals for me under warranty, but if I need an injector or any work on them, I am responsible. I asked during overhaul how they checked out, and was told sprays were good..........they are now saying they did not check them.

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We Dig The Dirty Work

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westcoast

Posts: 982
Joined: Dec 2008

Friday September 25, 2009 00:14
Well we all know turbos either work or they don,t so they,re grabbing at straws - if they did,nt check the squirters like they said did they pull them at all or did they take the head off with them still installed ? also make sure you don,t have an exhaust restriction Regards David ------------------------- detroit

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Willie

Posts: 8
Joined: Sep 2009

Friday September 25, 2009 05:46

I believe they were left in the head. 1 and 3 were removed, and swapped prior to overhaul. This all started with an engine knock. The knock was in cyl #1. They swapped those two injectors to see if knock followed the injector.....it did not. End result was to remove head then and see what was going on. We found two scored pistons, and cracks in the top of all of them. The rest is history!! I didn't bring the truck in because it smoked, it developed a knock.........smoke is just the gift I got after the overhaul.

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We Dig The Dirty Work

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westcoast

Posts: 982
Joined: Dec 2008

Friday September 25, 2009 07:10
mmmmm !!! you might have an injector problem - check to see if the cylinder kits match your squirters because there,s two different compression ratios Regards David ------------------------- detroit

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Willie

Posts: 8
Joined: Sep 2009

Friday September 25, 2009 15:23
Thanks David, I have an appointment for Monday. Hope we can get this resolved quickly, and cheap!!! ------------------------- We Dig The Dirty Work

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chupicat

Posts: 36
Joined: Apr 2008

Friday September 25, 2009 19:30
how can you take out the smoke is retarding the time ,but i can bet you that they(mechanic) hit a nozzle (is only one)it is easy to fix take out the exaust manyfoil and plug the oil feeding turbo and your going to see which hole is smke

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desertstormboy

Posts: 372
Joined: May 2008

Saturday September 26, 2009 19:31

willie, i know times are hard, and money is on everyones mind at the moment. i dont know if anyone else has told you or gave you any advice on the overhaul decision that you made. on a true overhaul in my opinion is that you should have had a reman head, all new injectors, new piston packs, rod and main bearings, turbo, oil pump, and would have had the fuel injection pump redone. i know that it is not my $15-20 grand that you are going to spend on this type of work, but by just replacing a couple of scored pistons does not consider to be an overhaul. a set of 6 injectors with seals installed would only have put you back probably another $500. cat offers an opt warranty with overhauls done at their location. you did not specify whether you took the work to a cat dealer, im assuming you did, cause you mentioned you had an "appointment" monday. in my opinion, when you take the truck back and when they remove the injectors, i would be there watching to make sure all the seals are new. if they are not new, then they did not remove the injectors from the head, which in my mind they did not check the head properly and may be giving you some information that is not true. one more thing, also when the "inframe" was done, was the fuel filters changed? when did you last fill up the fuel tanks? do you think this may be some fuel problem? usually the black smoke is the frc diaphragm or stopped up air filters, but you mentioned both of those so that sort of rules out that. keep updating us on any info you get from your appointment.

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IT WENT BING BANG BOOM!

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Willie

Posts: 8
Joined: Sep 2009

Sunday September 27, 2009 20:18

We did all cylinders, with all Cat parts, at a certified Cat dealer. Everything else was checked (crank, oil pump, head, valves, turbo, etc) and determined to be good to go. I was told sprays were checked and were okay but now I'm not so sure. That will be revealed tomorrow, and will see how much will be warranted. Fuel pump pressure has been set, new AFRC valve, fresh fuel, and all new filters including air. I am very confident that there is a problem with an injector spray, or seal. I took the truck to them with a knock, not a smoke problem. Thanks for the great tips, hopefully all will be taken care of soon. This truck is used to pull my backhoe around the Vegas area, and is not a daily road truck...... but after spending over $10K on it, I was expecting a little more. I know it will get there, just have to be patient. It has been going on since July.

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We Dig The Dirty Work

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desertstormboy

Posts: 372
Joined: May 2008

Sunday September 27, 2009 20:38

smart decision on your part willie to have all 6 done. you just didnt specify that earlier in the thread. will you be able to be there when they yank out the injectors to have them checked again? i read that you say that the fuel pressure was set? fuel pressure cant be set on these engines, the fuel is pumped to the injection pump through a mechanical pump then pumped to the injectors from the injection pump. just may be another specific that i cant understand from you, but hopefully all will come out tomorrow. good luck,,and in my opinion, you should "sweet talk" to them and try and get this done for free since you spent that kind of money earlier with them. they should help you out.

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IT WENT BING BANG BOOM!

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Willie

Posts: 8
Joined: Sep 2009

Sunday September 27, 2009 21:14
Yes, planning to be there. What I meant was that fuel pressure was checked, and pump timing set......I hope that makes better sense. Thanks, Bill ------------------------- We Dig The Dirty Work

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Willie

Posts: 8
Joined: Sep 2009

Friday October 02, 2009 21:34

Looks like I found the problem..........while searching for the proper injectors, I discovered that the wrong cylinder kits were installed in my engine. Somewhere along the way they used the wrong Serial, and Arrangement numbers. They installed 310hp cylinders as opposed to 425hp. Explains the smoke, and lack of power in a nut shell. They are preparing to re-do the engine with the proper kits. Not a good situation for any of us. I feel bad for them as much as myself.............I hate to see the thing torn down again! Good people, very eager to get it right.

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We Dig The Dirty Work

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westcoast

Posts: 982
Joined: Dec 2008

Saturday October 03, 2009 03:31
Well we all make mistakes but hopefully they,ll stand by you Regards David ------------------------- detroit

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desertstormboy

Posts: 372
Joined: May 2008

Sunday October 04, 2009 21:44
question is ....are you still going to use the old injectors, or will u replace them when they tear it down again? ------------------------- IT WENT BING BANG BOOM!

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Willie

Posts: 8
Joined: Sep 2009

Saturday October 10, 2009 08:42
New for sure..........still waiting for them to get me in, blame is being passed around.....glad it is thier problem and not mine. Really need the truck to get done soon. ------------------------- We Dig The Dirty Work

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