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Thread Title:

430 series 60 12.7 detroit engine question

Created On Tuesday August 31, 2010 08:46

mullar

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug 2010

Tuesday August 31, 2010 08:46

Hi , new here. Sorry if this is the wrong way to ask a question here , but my problem is , I had the jake brake come apart and damaged my head and camshaft . A shop replaced the head with rem head , new cam bearings and put a used camshaft in b4 asking me . I have a 2003 60 series 12 .7 engine and its a true 430 engine. The cam was from an older engine but he told me all the cams are the same in a 60 series engine . Now when u barr the engine it is tight to turn .Took it to another shop and he check the setting of the valves and injectors and the valves were set too tight he said and the injector set wrong. He then checked a cam bearing and it was worn down pretty much on 1 side of the bearing with only about 8,000 miles on new bearings and said he put the wrong cam in and thought that was why the hard to barr problem . Am waiting for the camshaft to get here from FL dealer . I was reading ur forum and gonfishin's knowledge among others and thought I would ask if the cam could in fact cause the engine to be tight when trying to turn it to adjust the valves. Thank you for reading this and for any comments u may have. Im not too knowledgeable of engines but learning the hard way.

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new owner operator

Edited: Tuesday August 31, 2010 at 09:16 by mullar

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mullar

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug 2010

Tuesday August 31, 2010 09:04
Ok my cam is in so have to go and get it. I will check for replies when I get back . Sure hoping that the cam fixes the problem. Hope everyone has a Good Day and God Bless ....... Ohhh I forgot to say , I had the jakes removed and the bolts replaced for no jakes. ------------------------- new owner operator Edited: Tuesday August 31, 2010 at 09:14 by mullar

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westcoast

Posts: 982
Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday August 31, 2010 14:09

Check reman head for undersize ( thickness ) , if undersize backlash between camshaft and idler gear can,t be set and will bind , if you have wear on upper bearing shells this is a good indication of no back lash ( normal wear on cam bearings will only show on lower cam bearings ). And yes there are different camshafts !!. Camshaft caps are,nt interchangable between cylinder heads - did anybody dummy fit cam on reman head to make sure the cam did,nt bind in the new head ? Regards David

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detroit

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mullar

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug 2010

Tuesday August 31, 2010 20:02

Sorry so long to reply.Had to go a good ways to get the cam and thxs westcoast for ur help and the info. If the head is undersized then what do I need to do to adjust for that so the cam is not binding ? And the guy who worked on it the 1st time I doubt if he did a dummy check coz since he worked on it I have found that a lot of his work has to be redone . But when ur on the road and break down you are kinda at their mercy and thinking they should know what they're doing but Im learning its not the case.

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new owner operator

Edited: Tuesday August 31, 2010 at 21:13 by mullar

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westcoast

Posts: 982
Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday August 31, 2010 22:12
You,re mechanic should know when he sets the camshaft backlash in four places - if it,s binding or not and he can check the camshaft tunnel before full installation Regards David ------------------------- detroit

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mullar

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug 2010

Wednesday September 01, 2010 06:05

Thxs again David. I talked to the machanic about maybe the head being undersized and he told me he had never had a reman head that was undersized. I've heard so many horror stories and myself spent a lot of money and time to shops that when they finished the job the problem was still there . This is the 4th shop for this same problem . they all know whats wrong and replace parts and do adjustments but the problem remains. I was recommented to this guy . As I said b4 he adjusted the valves and injectors and said he thought the wrong cam was put in. My thinking now is a different cam would have different lobes which would change the setting but the cam alignment would still be the same and not bind coz of the wrong cam. If I understand right thats the only differance in the cams ??????? So if the cam that in now is binding, is changing the cam as he wants to do going to solve my problem? I just dont want to replace the cam and it isnt the problem and more money down the tube.

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new owner operator

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westcoast

Posts: 982
Joined: Dec 2008

Wednesday September 01, 2010 17:26

By undersize I meant that the firedeck may have been machined to far or the cam tunnel has been bored to deep in turn causing a problem with setting up your geartrain - your engine did,nt have a bind in it before you dropped valves so it stands to reason that your problem was caused by either damage to the top of a piston - no backlash in idler camshaft gear - wrong timing - cylinder head dimensions ie firedeck or camshaft tunnel or a fault with the s/hand camshaft- Somebody needs to check this out correctly !!! Regards David

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detroit

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mullar

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug 2010

Wednesday September 01, 2010 20:55

Txs again David, I really appreciate all ur help and info.I took the trk to the shop and I talkd to the machanic just a little while ago and he's going to measure everything like u said and find out where lies the problem and then go from there to correct it . He said if the head is undersized then need to get another head. He says detroit has a special gasket that will raise the head some but he recommended just changing out the head if it is undersized . Txs again for ur help . Its nice to know there are people willing to help and share their knowledge and experiences . We need all the help we can get out here coz knowledge can save money and time in this business and people like you makes it possible . God Bless you and Yours . regards Les

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new owner operator

Edited: Thursday September 02, 2010 at 21:39 by mullar

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GoneFishen

Posts: 1325
Joined: Jan 2007

Friday September 03, 2010 20:13

Remember there is a 1 year warranty on all DDA reman parts. We did have a reman head bind the cam up but we caught it before releasing it to the customer. He was upset but was understanding for the problem. Like was said the caps are NOT interchangeable between heads. We have do it but we used plastic guage to cover our A$$. Customer had no more money for a new head. Nowdays at that shop they would just push the truck outside and wait for some $ or someone to pay the bill and tow it out.

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DDA tech for 30 years,all 2 cycle,series 60,50 mbe also.
1995 F250, 191k mi.
Lost Wages, Nv

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desertstormboy

Posts: 372
Joined: May 2008

Saturday September 04, 2010 04:14
sounds like a shop i know of fishen. ------------------------- IT WENT BING BANG BOOM!

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mullar

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug 2010

Friday September 10, 2010 21:08

Thanks GoneFishin and David.... Sorry for the slow reply , haven't been able to get back on here till now . Well the problem was the cam the other shop put on , when the new shop checked it they said it was bad cam so put a new one on and the binding is gone and the fuel mileage and all is better now . B4 they said it was like driving with a brake on the engine . But all my problems aren't solved yet .... Now I have low oil pressure problem , thought maybe it was oil needed changing or something with the filter but replaced the oil and filter and once the oil got hot it's back. So they r going to drop the pan tomorrow and check the oil valves and check for anything that may be loose. Also said he is going to check one of the main bearing to see how it looks . don't think its the oil pump yet but will know more when they check it out . It's times like these I wish I was anything but an o/p hehehehe . Oh well just part of the job I guess . Life goes on I suppose and we do the best we can to survive . Truckin ! don't u just love it . All kidding aside.... I still enjoy the road ... Thanks guys for all ur help and knowledge and being a friend to us out here on the road . It's guys like u that makes it all worth it. Best Regards to u all.................. Les

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new owner operator

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westcoast

Posts: 982
Joined: Dec 2008

Saturday September 11, 2010 02:42
Glad to see a camshaft fixed it !! When your checking your oil pressure problem make sure they check the new cam cap bolts that were replaced when you removed the jakes just to make sure your not dumping too much oil there Regards David ------------------------- detroit

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mullar

Posts: 7
Joined: Aug 2010

Monday September 13, 2010 14:49

Thanks David. So the new cam cap bolts could cause the engine to have low oil pressure? They changed the oil and filters , no change... replaced relief valve, no change... changed the sensor. no change... at idle the pressure is about 13 lbs . checked with computer and it showed to be the same pressure as at the guage shows. when engine is cold its about 35 t0 40 at idle till it warms up. The check light comes on and the engine stop light and the low oil signal. The oil looked good with no signs of metal and no diesel and did oil analysis and it was normal so dont think its bearings and when u run the rpm's up the pressure goes up so it seems the pump is pumping .

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new owner operator

Edited: Monday September 13, 2010 at 14:50 by mullar

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Dieselhawk

Posts: 98
Joined: Sep 2009

Monday September 13, 2010 16:02

Make sure they didn't put the newer style rocker shafts (with machined flats at each bolt hole) with the old style bolts and washers (curved washer and 12mm head). If you have the new shafts you need the new bolts (18mm head). I have seen this done before where the oil pressure leaks out between the curved washer and the flat on the shaft. I think this is what West Coast is suggesting.

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Dieselhawk

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westcoast

Posts: 982
Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday September 14, 2010 00:44
Thanks Hawk Regards David ------------------------- detroit

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