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Thread Title:

loss of fuel prime

Created On Saturday September 18, 2010 06:48

redenek

Posts: 1
Joined: Sep 2010

Saturday September 18, 2010 06:48

Came across a problem with an engine that kept losing its fuel prime. Did all the normal fixes such as replacing the check valves and puting a loop in the fuel line to create a trap but if the unit wasn't run every week I would be called back for a no start issue and sure enough the fuel in all the lines was gone....even the fuel in the loop. This was a complete mystery. The problem was finally diagnosed as a failed o-ring seal on the fuel injectors. Once the injector seals were replaced the problem was solved. It's not necessary to put a loop in your fuel lines although this is helpful as a backup in case your check valve fails to seal completely. Hope this is helpful to somebody else.

-------------------------
redenek

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wwwtrucker

Posts: 1
Joined: Sep 2010

Saturday September 18, 2010 19:02
I have an engine that also loses fuel prime ( or at least, it seems to be that ) Cranks 3-4 times for 30 or 45 seconds before it starts at the beginning of the day, then will start right up if shut off and restarted within, say, an hour or less. I guess I will be looking at injector seals... ------------------------- Two trucks broke, I think I'll buy a third one....

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desertstormboy

Posts: 372
Joined: May 2008

Sunday September 19, 2010 05:37
redneck, you say you put a "loop" in the fuel line, but when it lost prime, even the fuel in the loop was gone. so why do you say its still a good idea for a "backup" for the failed check valves? ------------------------- IT WENT BING BANG BOOM!

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GoneFishen

Posts: 1325
Joined: Jan 2007

Wednesday September 22, 2010 17:40

When the series 60 first came out and for about 6 -8 years after they made a 'loop' in the return line. Reason was the return fuel did NOT have a tube all the way into the fuel. Basically the fuel line stopped at the tank and just sprayed in. Todays fuel tanks have a return line that is inside the tank and drains below the fuel level. This way the 'loop' is no longer needed.

-------------------------
DDA tech for 30 years,all 2 cycle,series 60,50 mbe also.
1995 F250, 191k mi.
Lost Wages, Nv

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TIREDTRAVELER

Posts: 15
Joined: Nov 2010

Sunday November 14, 2010 19:36

I lost my prime on a series 60 in a 1996 bus, after much searching I found a deteriorated delivery hose from the Racor fuel filter, that leaked under pressure only. Very difficult to detect!

The mention of a check valve in previous posts caught my attention as that is something I thought might have failed, however I was not able to find one.

Where is the check valve located?

I am still in the middle of this repair and need to know what is used out in the industry to prime the fuel system when needed. Is it a home made setup?

I have a port on the side of the secondary fuel filter mounting/base that appears to be a R12 refrigeration port. Is that what it is?

I will be looking for a fitting to put on a small tank sprayer to attach to that port. Am I on the right track????

Looked today for that fitting and or hose and found it to be a special order item and more expensive than it should be. Should I change that R12 fitting to something I could more easily obtain in a location that does not have good supply sources, I am broken down and want to get going.

The mention of the O-rings is interesting, was that a costly repair? Did you do it yourself. How common is that repair/failure and is there a test for it or is it just the loss of prime that indicates the need for repair?

Hope someone reads this, Thanks in advance!

-------------------------
TIRED TRAVELER

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stump

Posts: 814
Joined: Aug 2007

Sunday November 14, 2010 20:56

The fitting you are describing is to prime the engine. I bought mine at the cat dealer and the fitting was about 40 bucks it came with the female connector. I was at the Northern tool place the other week looking at the pressure washer tips and dang if they dont look just like what I bought at the cat house but a hell of a lot cheaper. I use a cheap plastic pump sprayer I cut the wand off and put te female quick connect on it,it works great.

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AustinTx

Posts: 6
Joined: Sep 2008

Saturday November 20, 2010 09:25
Hi Redneck did you replace the lower o-ring or did you replace the upper o-ring or both and what was the cost of parts and the cost of labor. seems i may have the same problem

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AustinTx

Posts: 6
Joined: Sep 2008

Saturday November 20, 2010 09:30
one more question Redneck did this cause your engine to have loss of power ? (with bad o-rings) or runs the same ?

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DetriotDog

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr 2011

Saturday April 23, 2011 18:13

Hi, my name is Noel i reside in Australia, i own a 1994 CLR Mack with a DDEC 405/425 series 60, it starts when its cold and runs great until 3 weeks ago when i got stuck out west when it wouldnt start , so after some checks i found no fuel in the pump , so i primed the lines and still no go , so i pressurised the tank and she started, and ran fine stopped and started afew times no problem then out of the blue nothing.... i read some of the threads on this great site and consulted a diesel fitter i know and we decided the check valve on the back of the head was our problem, so after going to MTU Detriot locally here and bought the stainless valve $ 315.00 later. we put it on and we started it . every thing was great for a few days i went out every couple of days and start straight away, but when i drive it for an hour and shut it down have lunch or just a drink , go back to start it and nothing just winds over, no codes come up , but if i turn the ignition on and wait for the check lights to go out and press engine check code 14 comes up ..is this a coincidece or is the problem still fuel....remember it has only done this in the past 3 weeks...i would appreciate any advice and help... As you can imagine to talk to someone here at detriot it costs about $180.00 an hour and to get them to look at it costs about the same, some times more ,,,Any ideas, i would really appreciate some help ,

Yours truley desprate detriot dog

Noel

-------------------------
Remember The ark was built by an amatur, And the Titanic by professionals

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Dieselhawk

Posts: 98
Joined: Sep 2009

Sunday April 24, 2011 00:29

Does the problem ever happen first thing in the morning? When the engine does start does it run rough for a few seconds or start straight up? If not I would be inclined to think that the problem is a timing sensor (SRS) failing intermittently when warm. The code 14 won't affect starting. This is a temp sensor voltage fault. If stuck in the middle of no where I have heard of drivers removing the SRS or TRS sensor and putting it in the fridge for a while to cool it down and then the engine starts. Haven't tried that one myself though. If pressurising the fuel tanks works every time I guess you do have a fuel drain back problem. If the problem starts happening overnight you can run a hose straight from a jerry can into the fuel pump to bypass the tanks,suction hoses and primary fuel filter and see if it starts up in the morning. This will help pin point the problem.

-------------------------
Dieselhawk

Edited: Sunday April 24, 2011 at 00:44 by Dieselhawk

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theakerstwo

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan 2009

Sunday April 24, 2011 06:55

It can be that the injectors or maybe just one has lost the seal to the head. This can happen for no reason or maybe a lose injector hold down bolt. To check it when you have it as hot as you canget it remove the return fuel line to the tank and put in a bucket of fuel and with engine running mid rnge watch for air bubbles. This can bbe fron compression entering from below the injectors into the fuel around the injectors and mny times will not do this untill engine is worked hard.

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