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Thread Title:

12.7 sensors effect timing

Created On Tuesday February 10, 2015 22:19

Tpenner

Posts: 27
Joined: Dec 2014

Tuesday February 10, 2015 22:19

Hello. Can anyone tell me to what extent the different temperature sensors on a ddec 4 effect timing? I have a ocerfueling/blue smoke issue at idle. Been checking different things and checked my sensors morning. Outside temp was 33 degrees. All temp sensor readings were within a degree or 2 of 33 degrees except my "ambient air temp reading in Ecm showed 71 degrees. Does anyone have an answer ad to why? I have been told by 2 diff Detroit shops 2 diff things. One said ambient air temp sensor is in Ecm. Other shop told me Ecm uses other temp sensor to come up with a calculated reading. Same shop told me I need to check injectors for ocerfueling. History I had inframe done at private shop with all oem parts seriel number correct in July. Smoke issue started in November with cold weather. Ddec 4 pk series 12.7 L Detroit in 99 kW w9. Thanks for any info

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westcoast

Posts: 982
Joined: Dec 2008

Monday April 06, 2015 05:15
ddecIV egr had an external ambient sensor but pk engines relied on manifold air temp, usual fault was ambient and barometric sensor reading incorrectly -causing smoke and power loss - fix was reflash with new file Regards David ------------------------- detroit

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egantrucking

Posts: 387
Joined: Dec 2007

Monday April 06, 2015 06:53
Mine just does that when it is cold outside. Makes it easy to find my truck in packing lot. Besides, runs too good to touch. ------------------------- michael egan

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Tpenner

Posts: 27
Joined: Dec 2014

Monday April 13, 2015 20:21
Thank you westcoast. I did kind of figure that out with all my tinkering

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Tpenner

Posts: 27
Joined: Dec 2014

Monday April 13, 2015 20:23
Thank you Egantrucking. Queation for you- when did it start smoking like that? Mine only did that after inframe ;ast summer. Became very evident when winter temps hit

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egantrucking

Posts: 387
Joined: Dec 2007

Thursday April 16, 2015 07:59
One day up north while I was fueling, I noticed it smoking while other trucks were not. That was years ago. I have almost 1.1 million on all six injectors. I love my Detroit. ------------------------- michael egan

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Tpenner

Posts: 27
Joined: Dec 2014

Thursday April 16, 2015 08:45

I see. Egan is yours an early ddec 3? I remember the 2 and some early 3's smoked some at idle. Later 3's quit doing that and mine is early 4 so it only started After inframe. How long does yours smoke white after a cold start up? Mine smokes white and runs rough for long time after in sub zero temps then it smokes blue at idle when temps are below 40F. The colder it is the worse it smokes and my stacks are wet on inside

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egantrucking

Posts: 387
Joined: Dec 2007

Friday April 17, 2015 17:00

ddec 4 1999. Sounds like we have different problems. I don't run up north anymore. But when it is around freezing, after all warmed up, mine will smoke under a street light at idle when others do not. Mine starts up with clean exhaust. It changes sound after it starts (in about two seconds). Starts sounding smooth and then switches to sounding like a normal clattering diesel.

I think my injectors are just tired. I have blowby at idle but I pass the crank case pressure test under a full load. It's run the same since new. Same blow by but I never noticed it smoking at idle until a few years ago. Only in the cold.

-------------------------
michael egan

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Tpenner

Posts: 27
Joined: Dec 2014

Friday April 17, 2015 17:14
I see. Maybe not the se problem. I have a low compression issue. As for injectors I bet yours are worn out and not atomizing properly. Only advice I can give on injectors is stay away from reliabilt ones. I had 6 reman reliabilt injectors installed at inframe and within 4 months al 6 were not atomizing/spraying properly. And not so sure all 6 of the replacements are good either

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Tpenner

Posts: 27
Joined: Dec 2014

Friday April 17, 2015 17:16
By the way I live and work in western Canada so I deal with cold temps half the year

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egantrucking

Posts: 387
Joined: Dec 2007

Saturday April 18, 2015 05:21

I live in Florida now. I almost never idle anymore, so as long as my fuel mileage is good, and there is no fuel in the oil and keeps running good, I'm not planning on replacing the injectors. I wish I could find some brand new injectors. Seems like I hear a lot of complaints about rebuilt injectors. Sometimes I wonder if the fuel system is kept clean when apart and filters are done right. New this truck only had 100k warranty on injectors. I guess they know they fail for some reason or another.

-------------------------
michael egan

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Tpenner

Posts: 27
Joined: Dec 2014

Saturday April 18, 2015 05:44
Good plan Michael and I envy you for where you live weather wise. Detroit dealer tells me that there are only rebuilt injectors available thru them. Have not checked any aftermarket avenues

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TimisoaraKill

Posts: 5
Joined: Oct 2014

Tuesday August 11, 2015 06:28

<< Hello. Can anyone tell me to what extent the different temperature sensors on a ddec 4 effect timing? I have a ocerfueling/blue smoke issue at idle. Been checking different things and checked my sensors morning. Outside temp was 33 degrees. All temp sensor readings were within a degree or 2 of 33 degrees except my "ambient air temp reading in Ecm showed 71 degrees. Does anyone have an answer ad to why? I have been told by 2 diff Detroit shops 2 diff things. One said ambient air temp sensor is in Ecm. Other shop told me Ecm uses other temp sensor to come up with a calculated reading. Same shop told me I need to check injectors for ocerfueling. History I had inframe done at private shop with all oem parts seriel number correct in July. Smoke issue started in November with cold weather. Ddec 4 pk series 12.7 L Detroit in 99 kW w9. Thanks for any info >>

Hello , I have this exact problem to in my S60 DDEC4 2001 , annoying stuff at least , I think it came after my overhaul but I am not sure since iI only start to see the blue smoke six month later with the beginning of winter .
I just bought 6 New injectors 5915 DDEC3 last week from Interstate Mcbee and I will do the swap next week to see if something will change.
I have other issues as well for this I invested in 6 New injectors , oil analysis is clear , no fuel in oil , no oil in fuel or antifreeze but :
Blue smoke on cold weather at idle.
I have the EGT a bit raised .
Fuel pressure at idle 600rpm is 0 to 2 psi at the pump exit , 60 Psi at 1800 rpm (parked truck) and 35 Psi under load @1400rpm.
Poor MPG , black smoke on hard acceleration and it look like is working in 5 cylinder in winter when engine is cold.
And my biggest problem is that after going downhill loaded for a while it will have low power for 20- 25 seconds when I try to accelerate , the boost rise only to 18 -20 psi and after a little while (20sec) it will gradually go up to 28 Psi.

-------------------------
Volvo VNL770 2001, Series 60 DDEC4 12.7 @ 500hp, Eaton 13 Sp. OD , 3.42 Rears , 11R22.5 tire

Edited: Tuesday August 11, 2015 at 07:11 by TimisoaraKill

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egantrucking

Posts: 387
Joined: Dec 2007

Wednesday August 12, 2015 13:00

"And my biggest problem is that after going downhill loaded for a while it will have low power for 20- 25 seconds when I try to accelerate , the boost rise only to 18 -20 psi and after a little while (20sec) it will gradually go up to 28 Psi."

Mine does the same since new. (I suspect) Once the exhaust manifold and turbo get cooled off, like coasting down a hill for a while, it must be reheated to get maximum boost. The computer will not let it burn more fuel until it can burn it completely. (Unlike the old mechanical motors)

-------------------------
michael egan

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Tpenner

Posts: 27
Joined: Dec 2014

Thursday August 13, 2015 20:31
Let me know how it works out with those new injectors. Not sure what would cause the other problem. Mine does not do that at all. It is very responsive. Your fuel pressure is too low. It's suppose to be minimum 17 psi at idle and 65 at 1800 no load. I would check why yours is do low. Sucking air? And if it's sucking air that will also cause/worsen your blue smoke issue

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TimisoaraKill

Posts: 5
Joined: Oct 2014

Saturday August 15, 2015 09:26

Thank you for your help , I will check for air in fuel after , good idea , today I went to the garage for the swap and I had the brilliant ideea to verify the New six pak Interstate Mcbee injectors before opening the head cover and guess what , two of them had the mesh filter missing one side , I guess that the fuel goes into the injector that way and without that mesh non filtered particles can block the nozzles , .
I feel happy that I checked , also one of the ones with the mesh missing had the old oliginal mesh on it , very dirty and probably 85 % clogged (I try pushing air with my mouth) so two are bad .
I contacted Interstate Mcbee for this matter and I sent them 3 pictures . Ugly thing knowing how big Interstate Mcbee is and I wonder how they passed the quality control ??? since they where sealed ,.....scary stuff .
I also paid 80$ for 2 days UPS rush delivery , that goes as well flushed on toilet since now I will have to wait probably 2 more weeks to end this story.

-------------------------
Volvo VNL770 2001, Series 60 DDEC4 12.7 @ 500hp, Eaton 13 Sp. OD , 3.42 Rears , 11R22.5 tire

Edited: Saturday August 15, 2015 at 10:17 by TimisoaraKill

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Tpenner

Posts: 27
Joined: Dec 2014

Saturday August 15, 2015 09:34
Oh oh. Not good. Good thing you checked before going further.

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