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Thread Title:

3-71 with water in cylinder?, need ideas.....


Created On Sunday August 03, 2003 19:27 Diesel Talk
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pkeberly
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Note Sunday August 03, 2003 19:27 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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I bought an old Euclid front end loader a few years ago, it has a 3-71 DD. The engine ran good when I bought it. Recently I tried to crank the engine, and it wouldn't turn over. I saw a trickle of water from the leaky exhaust gasket. I easily pulled the exhaust manifold?, and saw that the drain might be plugged and it looked like water had half filled it at sometime?

The upper part of the manifold gasket was blown away, and it looks like it's been that way for some time, by looking at the soot around. Now that I think back, last spring I saw plenty of water coming from the manifold area when it was running. I recently did plenty of power washing on the old beast, maybe it's new water? or it could be old stuff from the rain/snow.

So my problem, what do I do next, (short of a can of gas and a match)?

1) Pull the injectors, bar the engine over and see if it's hydrostatic locked?
2) try to force open some exhaust valves and bar it over?
3) Pull the head and get a good look?
4) ?

The engine is buried in the machine, I would have to disassemble most of the loader to get to the oil pan, So and in-frame is a last resort. I just did an oil change, and the oil that came out, althought very black, didn't look unusual?

I took the valve cover off, but without the manuals (they're on order) I don't want to touch anything yet.
Any help, sympathy, or even some spare change would be helpful

Thanks, Paul

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pkeberly/lakes/loader.html

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badges65
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Note Monday August 04, 2003 03:05 View thread in raw text format
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Hi Paul,
first thing pull the injectors.
remove airbox covers so you can see into liners and pistons check for water .
remove air intake to blower check no water there .
you should be able to bar the engine over now.
let us know results!!
don



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pkeberly
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Note Monday August 04, 2003 08:44 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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Thanks Don, The loader is 230 miles from my home, so I'm trying to gather as much info as I can before another visit at the end of this week.

I don't think I'll have my manuals by then, so I have a zillion questions zooming around my head:

1) Can the injectors be removed without any special tool?
2) Airbox covers? are they the oblong access covers across from the blower, or are they on the blower side?
3) What if I find water on the intake side?
4) How easy should this engine turn over? I would hate to break anything "ape-hanging" on a 5 foot bar!

With the injectors removed, and assuming I can bar the engine over a few turns, what would you recommend next? Maybe spin it with the starter, with some Kroil down the injector holes?

Uncharted waters for me, but I'll keep ya posted!
Thanks again, Paul
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badges65
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Note Monday August 04, 2003 18:41 View thread in raw text format
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Hi Paul,
may be best if you first look in the cyclinders through the air box covers there should be 3 on the opposite side to the blower.
you may need a dentist mirrow to see down depends on where it all stopped.
would take a long spouted oil can and squirt diesel down into the cyclinders where you can through the air holes in the liners.
take off the tappet cover and check that all the valves are still there and one hasnt dropped.
if in doubt would undo all the rocker bolts and see that all valves are up.
you may need a small claw bar to lift injectors .
are you sure there is no water in the sump oil did it come out oil first from sump plug.?
if things look reasonable would try rocking crankshaft turning clockwise firstly, watch the Bolt doesnt want to undo anti.
pulling the injectors will decrease the compression and if a piston is above the air holes of the liner will allow you to put some diesel down into the cylinder you will need to put enough down to fill the compression hole in the piston. once you can get it to turn excess should spill out the liner holes. then turn it over with the starter with the injectors out to get rid of the rest. dont forget to hold the stop lever on whilst turning over.
don




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pkeberly
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Note Tuesday August 05, 2003 09:10 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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Thanks Don, I'm headed that way on Thursday.

I'll get a mirror to look in there.
Tappet cover? same as a valve cover I assume? I took that off already and checked to see that nothing looked odd?

I would have to say, I didn't look for water in the oil when I changed it. At that time I didn't suspect anything was wrong. Actually I think I changed the oil before I started washing her down so I didn't have to work in the slop.

I think now I have a plan of attack, I'll post Sunday what I find.

Thanks, Paul
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badges65
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Note Tuesday August 05, 2003 16:19 View thread in raw text format
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Hi Paul,
yea tappet cover/rocker cover/valve cover all same.
looks like you you may have got water down the exhaust when you washed down!!!!??
will pay you to drop sump plug for a quick check before you do anything..
don

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pkeberly
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Note Monday August 11, 2003 12:14 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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Well, good news guys!

I pulled the airbox covers and the blower intake, just as we suspected, rust stains from the 2 front cylinder air slots. I tried baring the engine over, no luck. So I removed the injectors and tried again, still no luck. A bit of Kroil in the injector holes and a bit of back and forth on the crank broke it loose to turn it backwards only.

I snuck up on the tight spot going forward, just bumping into it, and spraying the Kroil in the injector holes as well as around the air intake slots. A minute later it would turn all the way over!!! Yahoooo!!

I cranked it with the starter, I don't have the wiring back yet, so I just use a jumper right on the starter. What a mess that made of me when that thing turned over! I cranked a few more times to expel any crap, then I made sure nothing was in the piston domes, and cleaned everything up real good in the valvetrain area and re-installed the injectors.

So I cranked it again, this time I had smoke from the exhaust, so I was sure it would start. I buttoned up the blower intake and the airbox covers, gave it just a wiff of starting juice, a tap on the starter, and she barked for a second!!

I replaced the fuel strainer and filter, and gave it another crank, it took a few tries, but it finally caught and belched all kinds of nasty smoke in my direction! I still had the exhaust manifold off, so it was really loud, but ran okay. At cold idle it rolls a bit, but I think that might be normal, my other 6-71 does it too. I did notice the center cylinder had some smoke at idle, my dad seemed to think it was unburned fuel. It went away as soon as the engine reved up a bit. I didn't have everything else checked out, so I didn't want to run it too long, or load it yet. I did notice the injectors had been replaced with DD re-mans in 1992.

I have the manifold/muffler assembly at home, I plan to repair it this week, I'm headed out right now to get a few gaskets to put it back together the right way. I did notice the airbox was kinda slimy, the covers had some thick black sludge on them, the blower didn't look scuffed up or oily, and I couldn't find the airbox drain either, my manuals came after I left, so I need to verify the drains are there, and are open.

Other than that, it looks like I am back to where I started, If I can get another 100 hours or so out of this engine, I'll be doing good.

Thanks again for all of the advice guys!

Paul
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badges65
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Note Monday August 11, 2003 17:50 View thread in raw text format
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Hi Paul,
glad to hear things progressed okay, there are 4 air box drains one at each corner/bottom of the block depends on the installation angle of the engine which are open, the one behind the starter is the !!!Bugger!!! one, you could put some kerosine in the air box cavity to see if it will run out otherwise you may have to try and get some compressed air to blow them backwards to clear them.
the rolling??!! hunting? is due to governor set up and may pay you to check it and reset. The buffer screw adjustment is the final critical one get engine to idle, at approx speed you want then add 10 to 25 RPM with buffer to stop hunting . keep the water out of her and clean fuel good oil and you will get lots more hours out of it.
don

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pkeberly
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Note Tuesday August 12, 2003 09:04 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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The center airbox covers is cast, with a baffle on the inside. This baffle leads out to a pipe elbow and is plugged off? Is this for an option I don't have?

I don't remember seeing a drain on any of the corners, there is a fresh looking plug in the block, on the starter side, near the fan? I'll look closer this weekend. Maybe I can get this thing put together and usable soon!

Thanks again, Paul
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badges65
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Note Tuesday August 12, 2003 17:53 View thread in raw text format
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Hi Paul,
that cover was used to inject cold start fluid and had an igniter withit no one uses them these days.
go to the web site below and there is a photo of a 671 there showing the air box drains same same 371.
don

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