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CATEGORY LISTINGS > DETROIT > Black fuel.....HELP!!! Other problems also!! [ REFRESH ]
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Black fuel.....HELP!!! Other problems also!!


Created On Thursday October 02, 2014 16:08 Diesel Talk
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Swampdonky
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Note Thursday October 02, 2014 16:08 View thread in raw text format
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2000 60 series in a 379 Pete I framed 60k ago new headx2,new injectorsx3,new ecmx2, new air to air,new water pump,compressor, hoses belts,air to air boots, new injector o ringsx6! Fuel is turning black. I have cut fuel filters open and it's not slimy all new fuel lines. I run with 2 other trucks and we fuel at same spot and they have no problems. I have tried fueling at other locations and it still does it. I have treated it with just about everything under the sun for algae. Truck also sputters and smokes white SOMETIMES no smoke on start up just when I get going in the mornings when it's cool outside. Truck will also sputter and smoke white when it rains. It won't do it all the time just when I have throttle pedal barley pushed down and it will quit when I press harder or let off. Doesn't matter the gear or the rpms. New boost sensor also. I have tried the resistor in the intake air temp sensor and it didn't fix it. The fuel is returning from the head at about 135-140 degrees. The truck did awesome about 3 weeks ago for about 2 weeks no sputter or white smoke and the fuel cleared up. It has gone back to sputtering and smoking now the fuel is black again...please help this thing is about to drive me crazy!! I have had it at just about every shop in ft worth and talked to almost every body from north to south east to west and nobody can help! Everybody just wants to throw parts at it.

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2000 379 60 series gonna drive me to drinking

Edited: Thursday October 02, 2014 at 16:10 by Swampdonky
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Muzzatruckandtransport
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Note Friday October 03, 2014 00:30 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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First thing ,Check fuel pressure , second thing check fuel pressure is primary fuel filter mounted to high ,is fuel hose between tank and primary FF in good condition ,had recent air in fuel problem on mine ,fuel in pick up tank was always darker not black but definitely darker,hose to primary was porous and primary mounted too high ,top 2 inches of filter was always empty when I changed it ,lowered mount replaced hose truck grew another leg . Drove me crazy for weeks ,would drive good one day crap the next,be good in the morning gutless in the afternoon ,Detroit techs couldn't diagnose it, finally an ex tech pointed it out and mentioned with 60 series fuel problems ,always ,always check fuel pressure first .

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Owner operator 30 years ,it's always a challenge but still enjoy it.

Edited: Friday October 03, 2014 at 02:30 by Muzzatruckandtransport
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Swampdonky
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Note Friday October 03, 2014 04:18 View thread in raw text format
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Fuel pressure is spot on had it at a shop and it was tested and it was about 10# low so they put a new pump on it and it's perfect...my fuel filters are always full when I change them...every single fuel line on it is new...to me it almost seems to be something electrical..I am just so tired of guessing and people throwing my money at it!!!!

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2000 379 60 series gonna drive me to drinking
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egantrucking
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Note Friday October 03, 2014 17:32 View thread in raw text format
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Could be soot in fuel. Leaking combustion gases past injector seals. Have you looked for air bubbles in the fuel return line?

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michael egan
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Muzzatruckandtransport
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Note Saturday October 04, 2014 00:53 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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if 3 injectors were bad at Inframe probably should have done a 6 pack in hindsight ,not trying to be a smart ass ,I know how it is when it comes to what's affordable ,hopefully gonefishings following and can give some advice , ya haven't got some thing floating around bottom of tank getting picked up and blocking stand pipe intermittently ?

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Owner operator 30 years ,it's always a challenge but still enjoy it.

Edited: Saturday October 04, 2014 at 01:42 by Muzzatruckandtransport
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Swampdonky
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Note Saturday October 04, 2014 18:18 View thread in raw text format
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They were all replaced I meant it to say it has been done 3 different times...I put the return in a bucket and it bubbles when it's out of the diesel but it does not bubble when its submerged...put new intake air temp sensor today and cleaned and put electric grease on every connection I could get my hands on...I hooked up to prolink today injector response times ranged from 1.03-1.07 I can get it to spudder and puff white smoke parked when I get it to 1600 rpm and push the fuel peddle to floor won't do it every time but sometimes...

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2000 379 60 series gonna drive me to drinking
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Swampdonky
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Note Saturday October 04, 2014 18:23 View thread in raw text format
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No stand pipe bottom draw fuel tanks hoses run from bottom both tanks to block then 1 hose to foreward to filter etc....I will gladly send a check to whoever helps me fix this thing!!!!

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2000 379 60 series gonna drive me to drinking
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JoeZ
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Note Saturday October 04, 2014 18:33 View thread in raw text format
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Is the engine consuming any significant amount of engine oil? For chance is any fuel getting into the crankcase?

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One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left.
44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.
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Swampdonky
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Note Saturday October 04, 2014 18:37 View thread in raw text format
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Not consuming oil or water..I change oil every 12,500 and it loses less than a gallon haven't added any antifreeze since inframe...should I be seeing the air bubbles it looks to me like it's just when it hits the fuel in the bucket...

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2000 379 60 series gonna drive me to drinking
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westcoast
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Note Sunday October 05, 2014 05:20 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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You need to check tps or harness , or overhead settings, a rocker bush turned in the shaft will cause the same symptoms Regards David

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detroit
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JoeZ
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Note Sunday October 05, 2014 05:39 View thread in raw text format
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If the return doesn't bubble when submerged, you are fine at that point. If you are getting black fuel, less than one gallon of black engine oil in 12,500 miles wouldn't be the cause, so I'm wondering if the oil isn't getting diluted to a point with diesel fuel and making up for what is making the fuel in your tank look black.

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One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left.
44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.
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Swampdonky
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Note Sunday October 05, 2014 05:48 View thread in raw text format
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Headed to check it now...have a new harness I am installing today wires are pretty brittle...keep the ideas coming I will update what I find when I get back this evening...a big thanks to everybody so far

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2000 379 60 series gonna drive me to drinking
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westcoast
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Note Sunday October 05, 2014 05:49 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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Black fuel suggests lower injector o ring or injector tube , as I said in last post check these things but also check both timing sensors for resistance as old sensors and worn bull gear will cause a flat spot or flutter Regards David

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detroit
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Swampdonky
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Note Sunday October 05, 2014 05:56 View thread in raw text format
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Both timing sensors are new..there has been no metal in oil pan and no metal on either sensor...o rings have been replaced 6 times with no change.. How can I check the injector tube?

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2000 379 60 series gonna drive me to drinking
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westcoast
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Note Sunday October 05, 2014 06:24 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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When injectors are pulled you will see if there is a problem, with cam and crank you won,t find any metal in sump , when worn crank and cam move towards front of engine it changes timing each time you hit the go pedal-your not looking for a normal fault Regards David


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detroit
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Swampdonky
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Note Thursday October 09, 2014 04:02 View thread in raw text format
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Swapped harness no change...swapped Tps no change..tired of jackin with it pulling it out and putting a yellow motor in it! Thanks for the ideas

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2000 379 60 series gonna drive me to drinking
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JoeZ
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Note Thursday October 09, 2014 15:52 View thread in raw text format
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I wouldn't think if it had an o ring problem making fuel black it would clear itself up and then come back again....that is the puzzling part. I hate to see somebody give up on something....in all my years, there hasn't been one single problem in my shops that we couldn't fix. It's just a bit tougher without hands on. Replacing the injectors and o rings so many times...just doesn't fit. Maybe a bad head....seen that a time or two.

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One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left.
44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.
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JoeZ
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Note Thursday October 09, 2014 15:54 View thread in raw text format
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Oh, and by the way.....I have nothing against yellow engines. Cat has had some home runs....3406 for example.....one of the better power plants....

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One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left.
44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.
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Swampdonky
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Note Thursday October 09, 2014 16:24 View thread in raw text format
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I hate giving up also but have been fighting this problem since March!!! I have spent over 3,000$$ just on fuel filters since then...I can't seem to find any "mechanics" any more just parts changers if you know of someone around the Dallas Fort Worth area I will be glad to give them the last shot..I will prolly run it till winter gets here so at least got another month and a half or so if she's not right....she gone!

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2000 379 60 series gonna drive me to drinking
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ptours93
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Note Saturday October 18, 2014 14:31 View thread in raw text format
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black fuel has to be associated with oil ,if there's no algea.orings on inj is a high possibiity.it's a freebie to check w/out throwing money at it.don't quit now after your recent parts added.like joe z said you can fix it just a matter of going back to basics.

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love my ddec 2 with 1.6 million miles.just did bullgear and cam bushings cuz i was gettin nervous.
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tenspeedover
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Note Monday October 20, 2014 15:48 View thread in raw text format
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I had a 99 ddec 4 that would do the same thing as far as sputter and white smoke, I run from ny to nc every week the same trip and it would do it in the same 2 spots every week pulling out of emporia va and pulling out of harford pa. I had detroit "hard wire " my fuel pedal and bypass all the factory stuff . The truck never did it after that I'm not saying that's your problem but it might be worth looking into. As far as black fuel me and my dad fuel at the same places all the time his fuel turned black a couple of times mine never did once , he put something from Detroit in it it was called something like asphalteen We quit fueling at Sunocos because I read the reuse fuel out of blacktop from the roads his fuel has never turned black since.
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JoeZ
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Note Tuesday October 21, 2014 03:23 View thread in raw text format
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Although it is now illegal, there are still some truck stops that dispose of their drain oil in the diesel fuel tank. 20 or 30 gallons of drain oil in 10,000 gallons of diesel won't show up much.

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One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left.
44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.
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littlejohn
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Note Wednesday November 05, 2014 18:55 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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how do you hard wire your pedal
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westcoast
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Note Sunday November 09, 2014 04:49 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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You bypass all the connectors and firewall etc and wire it straight from the pedal to the ecm Regards David

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detroit
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littlejohn
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Note Sunday November 09, 2014 10:54 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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so in doing all this by pass of connector will I notice any difference?
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littlejohn
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Note Sunday November 09, 2014 10:56 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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my fuel turned black and it turned out to be the fuel pump was letting oil in to the fuel.
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heavyhaulerss
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Note Monday November 10, 2014 16:15 View users profile View thread in raw text format
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Thank you for this info

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HEAVYHAULERSS
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danofarming
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Note Thursday January 22, 2015 14:45 View thread in raw text format
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If the seal is bad engine Oil can pass into the fuel pump and thus contaminate the fuel tanks. That being said any engine oil should burn and not be an issue.
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Abenni1147
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Note Monday August 10, 2015 14:35 View thread in raw text format
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did you ever find a cure for your black fuel? I've got a 2001 freightliner doing the same thing,just like you I,ve done everything under the sun. there has to be a fix.
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