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Thread Title:

3116 nightmare! Need help PLEASE!

Created On Sunday March 01, 2009 19:08

Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Sunday March 01, 2009 19:08

Hi everybody,
Looks like I found the right place at the right time. I will try to condense this down the best I can. Very long story. I'm new to this form, but have been a member of T D R Mag. for yrs. Been driving for yrs. truck for 30, but all Cummins!
The problem I'm having is the engine is, it's down again! I have a 93 Kodiak toterhome,(living area behind cab, hook fifthwheel behind that), 191k, with the 3116(275hp) motor. 9spd, 4:10s. This all started with the rig smoking black and never clearing up! The local Cat dealer told me I need to basically give it a tune up! Well, $8000 later (new inj. overhead, new cam (found a bad follower), and all that goes with a major tune up, the rig is down again!

So it would be close to home, and not sure if the problem would be under warrenty, had it towed in from Phoenix,( I'm in San Bernardino), back to Cat! In Phoenix, we started loosing coolant out the overflow and it was smoking the dreaded whitish/blue and missing. It never did over heat and the oil pressure never went down! We let it cool overnight and the next morning, had to fill the radiator up. Oil was fine with no loss. Restarted after filling, out the radiator came vapors and bubbles! The smoke now was very heavy white/blue. Shut it down and called the big hook! It sits at Cat now waiting for Monday 9 to 5ers to come to work! Years ago, one could go to a H D shop 24/7!

IF YOUR STILL THERE, THANK YOU!, I need some Professional help. I've read all the 3116's post, and got a pretty good idea of some possible causes. Cat is telling me it ran it's life expendency and I have to have a reman eng! $12k plus labor! They say it's their throw away motor!

I bought this rig from a elder couple with 171k on it who took very good care of it. He changed oil (Rotella) every 5k! I really need a sense of guideness with this, and any or ALL help comes HIGHLY appreciated!

Oh, by the way, to all 3116 owners, mechinacs that know how to or know what their doing on these engs., are far and few between! At least out here in So Cal! Be careful!

Thank you all so very much for listening!
Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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catmech

Posts: 326
Joined: Nov 2005

Thursday March 05, 2009 22:27
did they pull the head off? possible blown head gasket, or cracked head, and water going out the exhaust. No leaks at water pump? if the head is off, have them check the top of cyl. block for straightness or warping, also the head. Yes, they can be a tough engine, to work on. You have to make sure you do every little step as you set the rack and injector settings just right.

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Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Sunday March 08, 2009 16:53

Hi Catmech,

Thank you so very much for the reply! Got some serious (to us) decisions to make, and want to make sure we make the right one's! Got some more info to share since I last been out here.

Cat called me and wanted me to come over to show me what they found and what can or should be done. They pulled the head and found all the inj. sleeves O K. The injectors were not stuck or hung open, but the head gasket was gone at cyls 4&6. The fire rings were completely blown out! They checked the block and all the cyls. were just out of speck and 4&6 were almost oval shaped? Hard to believe with only 191k on it!

So, in their opinion, the eng is gone and it would be better to just short block it. They made a list of parts, and using anything they could off the old eng, they came up with $7k! And that's giving me a break cause of all the other work I had done by them!

The service manager called me Sat. and said, in his opinion, he's found the hot ticket for us. His regional manager found a wrecked motor home (front end) with 38k on it. It's got a 3126/300 in it. He ran it and said he checked it in the field and it ran great, and pending a dnyo test, we could get the eng for about $6k with a warranty. He said he also found a new wiring harness to change it over for $500.

So Sir, and I'm Not gonna hold you to any thing except an opinion, what should we do, or what would you do?
Get a reman 3116 at $12k, Get our eng rebuilt at $7k, Or step up to the 3126 for $6k, or???????
All these prices are plus labor. I even went as far as to call Cummins to see what a 8.3 would cost. Not cheep $14k, plus God knows what a can of worms that could be!

We (the Wife and I) will be highly looking forward to your next reply on this confusing subject.

Sir Again, Thank You for your reply!
Dennis

Also, I mentioned I drove only Cummins. Mainly I did. For awhile I did drive a KW with a Cat 1693TA/425 back in the early70's and never had any problems with it! Great MPG's, Tons of power, and very dependable!

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JoeZ

Posts: 938
Joined: Dec 2008

Sunday March 08, 2009 18:08

I know you didn't ask me, but in my opinion, I would step up to the 3126. The warranty seems encouraging. Second choice would be the reman. You can't go wrong with a warranty....especially on these engines. Doing yours with a short block and all the other used parts would not be an option in my opinion.

-------------------------
One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left.
44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.

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JoeZ

Posts: 938
Joined: Dec 2008

Sunday March 08, 2009 18:13
The other thing would be that if you bought the 3126, you could recover some of the cost by selling your 3116 for a core. Put it on Ebay....you might get more than you think. ------------------------- One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left. 44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.

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Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Monday March 09, 2009 18:13

Hey JoeZ,

Maybe when I read this site more and more, I'll know the people better! At this stage, I'll take all the replies I can get! Hope your not offended Joe?

Well, I tend to agree with all of you. I'm gonna go take a look at the motor home Wed. I want to see the odometer and find out how they dyno'ed the eng. Maybe they put it on a eng dyno.

A funny thing happened today. On the way home, I saw a man out on a construction site working on a huge Cat bottom dump. So, I parked the truck walked over and said "got a minute"? He looked frustrated, so I guess me coming up there was a breath of relief! He said "what's on your mine"? So I told him the story.

Now this guy was no young man. He said he's been working on these things what seemed like forever! There was a grader there and he said take a look at the eng. Well, it had a 3116 in it! He said son, there is nothing wrong with these engs. One just has to keep after them! He did agree with you Joe, step up to the 26. He said for that price, with warranty plus install was better than he could do himself!

I thanked him, handed him a Coke and started to leave. As I was walking away, he yelled out , "Here me now, forget to do the maintenance you'll be in the same place"!

I gave him the thumbs up and left.

Funny how things work. Finding this site then seeing a mech working on a Cat!
After I look at the motor home I'll keep you all posted

Thanks Again for all the help,
Dennis

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catmech

Posts: 326
Joined: Nov 2005

Wednesday March 11, 2009 18:43
is your 93 Kodiak toterhome at the riverside cat dealer in ca? Edited: Wednesday March 11, 2009 at 18:44 by catmech

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Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Wednesday March 11, 2009 19:48

Hi catmech,

Well you found it! When I came to this forum to check replies, and saw yours, it was like you have ESP! They are the only ones that have done work on it. I'm a firm believer in leaving things the way they came from the factory and servicing it the same way! Since last June, this has been a very frustrating experience!

Catmech, for the obvious reasons, if you want to make this issue a private conversation, here is our (the wife's) email gaylamath@aol.com

If not, then I have no problem continuing out here!

Thank you Again,
Dennis

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Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Wednesday March 11, 2009 19:55

Hi All,
Talked to the man who has the 3126 Eng today and the motor home has 32,800 on it. He said it's got a exhaust brake, A/C,and computer. All I would need is the up dated harness. He is asking $7500 for it. What I want to find out is the warranty I can get, and will the seller be willing to have the eng dyno'd before purchasing! If not, the reman eng might be the way to go! We don't want to go thur the Phoenix thing again!

Will keep you all posted
Thanks,
Dennis

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catmech

Posts: 326
Joined: Nov 2005

Wednesday March 11, 2009 21:47
if he will let it be dynoed, they have a engine dyno at the their tractor division across the street. your looking at about a days labor though to do so, by the time they hook it up and unhook it.

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Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Friday March 13, 2009 14:12
Hi Catman, Just got back in and have no news yet! How it was left with Cat was If I can get that same warranty as the remans have 3yr/300k, the questions are answered! Haven't herd from Clarks Towing ( man with the 26) about dyno'ing before purchase. Thanks, Dennis

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catmech

Posts: 326
Joined: Nov 2005

Saturday March 14, 2009 18:11

make sure the air to air after-cooler, air lines, and anything else that comes with that engine is included in the price of the engine you are buying. that could add up to a lot of extra money if it does not. I believe that it does not have a water cooled after cooler like the 3116 might have. then they will have to change the throttle pedal to an electrical one, try to get that from the the seller as well. Air cleaner, piping and anything else you can get. just thinking what you might need that you could get from seller to cut your cost of install.

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Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Sunday March 15, 2009 12:54
Your advice is highly taken Catman! I made a copy of your reply, so I don't forget anything you mentioned. Like I said, to me, if I can't get the same warranty as the reman, than I might as well get the reman with a piece of mine! Now I know that won't make it fool proof, but at least it's someone else's nickel! Thanks Again Catman

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catmech

Posts: 326
Joined: Nov 2005

Thursday April 16, 2009 18:42
whats happening with your nightmare? have not heard from you lately.

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Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Tuesday April 21, 2009 19:49

Hi Catman,

Our season is in full swing, so been pretty busy. As for the nightmare, well, now the emission laws are playing havoc! According to the head honcho over at Cat, and I guess he knows, the 3116 will have to be fitted with a particulate trap in 2010. And right now, they don't have any for them. If they did, he said they go for $15k! So he suggested looking for a newer used 26. The one he found ended up being a 96 year and he said I would end up having the same emission law problem like the 16. I talked to him today and he said he's gonna double check on the laws pending and will get back to me. Isn't it nice of them to let me know this now! Why didn't they tell me this when all this started so I'd be further down the road with this! I thought, after reading Land Line Mag. that R V's were exempt! He said that all diesel trucks/rvs, and p/u's included will have to comply.

Tow weeks ago they faxed me a written quote. The reman 16 was $19,461.69, the reman 26 was $23,956.85, the used 26 ended up at $18,417. A short block and my other usable parts etc was $15,717.69 and a long block ended up at $16,404.48.

So Catman, as you can see, this is still a nightmare! I can't believe everyone else with a engine problem is going through this! This can't be this complicated! If these new Carb laws are that strict, theirs gonna be a lot of drivers excluding Ca from there runs especially with the economy the way it is!

Anyway, I'm not throwing in the towel, yet! I'm just not this kind of man, but if I was, I'd patch up my 16, sell the rig, and buy a newer one that can comply!

Catman, if these people out here are wrong with what there telling me, I would love to here the truth! Catman, I bet your sorry you asked now, uh?

Anyway Catman, Thanks for inquiring again
You've been a great help!
Dennis

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catmech

Posts: 326
Joined: Nov 2005

Tuesday April 21, 2009 21:34

no, but am happy you replied. One of the things that's is being talked about, is the fact of what is the epa going to require in the next couple years. heavy equipment is already in great swing to comply with these new standards, including the particulate muffler. machines built in the late 1970s early 1980s are being fitted with tier three engine. So your responds is what I have been wondering about.

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Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Thursday April 23, 2009 19:51

O K, more up dates. Just herd from Trans West Ford, (Cat told me to call them for a better price), and they informed me there are no reman 3116's anywhere in the U S! Unbelievable! Met a Cat mechanic today from the Sacramento area. He's actually a field analyzer for the heavy construction end of Cat and was a mech for 22yrs. I gave him the story in a very short form, and he said, that comm rigs having a gvw of 14k or more will have to comply. Private R V's are except for now, and for the near future. Private p/u's are excluded also. So, he said to call him with the I D #, arrangement#, and Per Spec# off my eng, and he'll see what he can do, or find.

Catman, Like you said, I think the thing to do is put the same 3116 back in, ( if one can be found), and worry about Carb and all the others later! He did ask how many miles are on it. When I told him, he couldn't believe it went away that fast. When I asked him what would blow fire rings out on a head gasket, he said most likely the temps in the cyls got too high! I said from over fueling? He said most likely, why? I told him that just before it went away, puffs of heavy black smoke came out the exhaust every once in a while. He said, did they check or change the injectors? Catman, when I told him about the $8k tune up, he shook his head and said he'll be talkin to me.

Anyway, I'll keep ya posted!
Dennis

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catmech

Posts: 326
Joined: Nov 2005

Thursday April 23, 2009 22:06

is your crankshaft good, your head was it reconditioned when you had the work done last? the camshaft and follower are good you just had them put in. injectors new. you could have the block sleeved and have it put back together. What would that cost. Ask them what their machine shop would charge to sleeve the block back to std. polish the crankshaft and put new bearings in it. it could even be dynoed on their engine dyno. put cylinder packs in it and your back on the road. thats if your block is ok to start with. or what about a short or long block? then put the rest of your parts on it

Edited: Thursday April 23, 2009 at 22:09 by catmech

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Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Friday April 24, 2009 17:36

Catman, The mech from Dixon called me today, and his parts mgr found three 3116's in Morton with two more coming in from Denver Monday! They are $11,044 ea. As far as my eng, Don't know if they pulled the head off when they did all the other work. When they did pull the head after it let loose, they said that the head gasket blew and that I need a motor. When I asked them what would have made it blow, they just said it's just wore out! They also said to rebuild my eng that it would cost more then the reman 16! When I told them that I want a failer analysis done, they looked at me with a strange grin and said who told you about that? I told them another Cat mechanic did. They looked like they saw a ghost! So that's the latest Dennis

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catmech

Posts: 326
Joined: Nov 2005

Friday April 24, 2009 21:29
well , keep me informed

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Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Sunday April 26, 2009 13:51
I will Catman, Thanks again for your ear!

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catmech

Posts: 326
Joined: Nov 2005

Saturday June 13, 2009 08:39
did you get it fixed or is it still sitting?

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Whathill

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 2009

Thursday July 02, 2009 20:23

Catman, Been on the road and don't keep a computer along. Well, It's sitting at our storage lot! Had to get it out of Johnson,( don't even want to talk about them!), but we are gonna send it up state to a very warm and caring dealer. They found me a 9Gk (reman) to replace the 2bk and will do it for about half the price. Waiting for the tow co. to work us in on a back hall. The Cat dealer is also trying to work us in if and when they bring a tractor down here and need a back hall. We were given a name and number to a big honcho with Cat. Talked to him about this whole ordeal and he said for us to put everything in a letter and he'll review it. He did say, why didn't they suggest to us to pull the head at the time of it needing a cam to see what's going on inside? I told him they said that everything looked OK at the time. Sounding mad, he said, well just put the story down and send it to him and he'll get back to me. So, just playing the long and drawn out waiting game. Got the money, just want to spend it wisely! I feel sorry for my poor old Dodge. We are working it pretty hard, (18k), and with 240k on her, she never misses a beat, Thank God! Anyway, looks like things are gonna work out. We just have to be patient

Thanks for your continuing concern Catman,
Dennis

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catmech

Posts: 326
Joined: Nov 2005

Friday July 03, 2009 09:03
hope this works out for you! let me know when you get everything worked out.

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catmech

Posts: 326
Joined: Nov 2005

Wednesday December 09, 2009 21:12
Whathill, what's up with your engine? Haven't heard from you in awhile.

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