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Thread Title:

Series 60 Air compressor oil bypass problems

Created On Sunday January 20, 2008 18:31

Airbrake

Posts: 1
Joined: Jan 2008

Sunday January 20, 2008 18:31

Hello,

I am hoping you guys might be able to help me with a problem I'm having with Detroit series 60 Tuflo 750 air compressors.

I run a rebuilding workshop which reconditions air brake air compressors here in Australia for most American vehicle brands.

Im having a lot of trouble with the Series 60 detroit compressor mainly the unit 5004187 which is fitted to the DDEC 6 cylinder motors.

These compressors are completely cleaned in a caustic hot tank and are re-machined for over sized genuine pistons. They are also completely checked and rebuilt to OEM tolerances using only genuine Bendix parts.

My problem is 50% of my customer's are claiming warranty on these units because they are bypassing oil and filling the air tanks with oil.

When i inspect these claims the pistons are showing light to medium scuffing of the bores as well as signs of glazing. (It's like dirt is being sucked into the units) This in turn is making the units bypass considerable amounts of oil into the air tanks.

Initially i considered our cleaning process which i modified but this made absolutely no effect, I then considered contamination of the oil in the motor but oil analysis proved there was no contamination.

I thought that maybe there was a breached inlet line for the compressor but inspection revealed nothing wrong and my customer claims there is no scuffing or liner damage upon an engine what was overhauled which went through multiple rebuilt compressors which all pumped oil.

Ive been speaking to a Detroit specialist here who has mentioned that the Jake Brake fitted to these engines has a oil drain line which is connected to the inlet manifold of these engines, he also mentioned that they used vent straight to the road but this has been outlawed.

He said that excessive use of the jake brake can cause a lot of oil discharge and carbonizing which is then obviously then being delivered into the engine inlet manifold which would then be sucked into the motor and compressor.

I figure the motor, if it was ingesting carbon and or oil would simply burn it up and not affect the pistons or liners where as the compressor not having combustion would become damaged by this.

Your thoughts or experiences would be gratefully appreciated as this problem is causing a lot of trouble and expense.

Thank you,
Peter

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GoneFishen

Posts: 1325
Joined: Jan 2007

Sunday January 20, 2008 20:52

Stories get better each year. First of all the Jake Brakes are NOT vented anywhere. The oil used to activate the 'Jakes' is done with pressure and the solenoids are UNDER the rocker cover. The oil is discharged under the rocker cover. Don't believe me?? Just activate the jakes without the rocker cover on and stand back. Next the air supply to the aircompressors comes from a hose UNDER the airinlet manifold. This is pressurized by the engine. There have been engines that have this hose damaged but the low power complaint will often get this problem fixed. The DDEC 5 engines have a vlave between the intake to the turbo and the aircompressor. It is possible to have the 'reed' valve give out and ruin the aircompressor this way. Not the DDEC 2,3,4 engines. The engine vent tube from the rocker cover is vented to the atmosphere here across the pond, however: the new DDEC 6 engines do NOT have the tube directly vented to the atmosphere.
Since I have never rebuilt the aircompressors I would suggest if this is possible to have the aircompressors run on a test bench for XX amount of time. YOU could break in the rings and verify the problem. Of course an oil line, air supply and coolant system would be needed but maybe you could do this and eliminate the customer complaints.
Just a thought.

-------------------------
DDA tech for 30 years,all 2 cycle,series 60,50 mbe also.
1995 F250, 191k mi.
Lost Wages, Nv

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egantrucking

Posts: 387
Joined: Dec 2007

Monday January 21, 2008 14:47

I have a 2000 detroit that has gone though a few compressors.....I learned how to do the "splater test". The last compressor I had put on right before warrenty ran out was replaced with a rebuilt commpressor. I drove the truck home from the shop and tested the oil output and it was the same as the one they had just replaced?!?!? I continued to test it for the next couple weeks and it was the same thing.......I gave up and just drain the oil out of my tanks and make sure there is no water mixed with it.......are you the one that's been rebuilding my compressors?!?

-------------------------
michael egan

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egantrucking

Posts: 387
Joined: Dec 2007

Monday January 21, 2008 14:54

PS: I had a yellow compressor once and there was NEVER a drop of oil in the air system.....

I think I've had three compressor replaced on my detroit in 500,000 miles. someone told me to buy a new one and NOT a rebuilt one.....next one's on my dime....and I've owned this truck since new, I baby it. Change the oil every 10K to 15K miles.....Why do my rebuilt compressors keep pumping oil?

-------------------------
michael egan

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GoneFishen

Posts: 1325
Joined: Jan 2007

Monday January 21, 2008 20:10
Funny, I never have had this problem. However I will ask around. I will also check the flow on the next one I change in a truck. I am stuck on busses last week and it looks like this week also. ------------------------- DDA tech for 30 years,all 2 cycle,series 60,50 mbe also. 1995 F250, 191k mi. Lost Wages, Nv

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midnightcamaro

Posts: 38
Joined: Jan 2008

Sunday February 03, 2008 23:42
airbrake do yall rebuild any compressors fitted to NON detroit engines? if so are you having any problems with them? ------------------------- diesel technician by occupation, drag racer and car enthusiast for life Edited: Sunday February 03, 2008 at 23:43 by midnightcamaro

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innocentbystander

Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 2009

Saturday March 07, 2009 10:27
HELP!!! I have had the exact problem with series 60 compressors from different remans. I have one in the shop now for compressor #3 in 4 years. What is going on here??

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BUTCH

Posts: 256
Joined: Jan 2009

Saturday March 07, 2009 18:00
2002 same problem,oil goes to the air dryer ------------------------- IM A 35 YR OWNER OPERATOR

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westcoast

Posts: 982
Joined: Dec 2008

Sunday March 08, 2009 01:57

I, d like to talk to the detroit specialist and find out which school he went too !!!!!! Pete which type of oversize pistons are you putting back in ? How many ring grooves ? and what type of oil control rings are you using ? Most reman compressors that I have rebuilt - yes after they,ve come from Detroit , have only just been servicable .Don,t follow Bendix specifications for ring tensions , ring gaps and oil control because they are designed not to wear bores or rings - (No wall tension ) and rely on boost pressure to make them seal which they don,t do effectively . Series 60 run alot of crankcase pressure and the owners need to make sure that the engine breather isn,t restricted , your compressor is no different to your turbo in regards to return oil - if oil is being held up in the compressor housing the compressor crank will throw it straight up the bores ( partial glazing ) It,s very hard to load a compressor at the best of times let alone without ring control , forget the bendix book - rebuild it like an ic engine and make it seal Regards David Victoria

-------------------------
detroit

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tornado427

Posts: 4
Joined: Mar 2009

Monday March 09, 2009 15:39

I just joined this site, and have been reading these posts with much interest! I also have had lots of problems with air compressers on my DDEC IV I went through 3 remans in 5 years, always getting oil in air drier, last one I robbed off a series 60 engine core that was lying out back behind a buddies Repair shop, he let me have it for free, just had to give him my bad one for a core, so far it has lasted 3 times as long as the rebuilt ones I got from Freightliner (reliabuilt) after reading this post, I dont feel like the Lone Ranger! Doug

-------------------------
too many projects, never enough money!!!

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airsystemcomponents

Posts: 1
Joined: Oct 2010

Wednesday October 27, 2010 06:34
If anyone is having a problem with compressor oil bypass in a transit bus, please contact me. My company can help. John Barone Air & Power Transmission Inc. Farmingdale, New York ------------------------- John F. Barone Product Specialist, Air System Components Air & Power Transmission Inc. New York

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FreightBoss

Posts: 1
Joined: Nov 2014

Tuesday November 18, 2014 07:21

Hello - I have had air compressor issues too! I have blown up two air compressors in as many weeks and my tractor is in the shop for air compressor #3

Each event was identical the air compressor cylinder blew out the side of the air compressor. My Series 60 has a governor on it ...could that increase the crankcase pressure and create some sort of back pressure on the air compressor

-------------------------
Jim Sullivan

Edited: Tuesday November 18, 2014 at 07:45 by FreightBoss

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