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Thread Title:

help on an egr'd series 60

Created On Sunday July 18, 2010 06:19

desertstormboy

Posts: 372
Joined: May 2008

Sunday July 18, 2010 06:19

hello all....in our fleet of 65 trucks, all freightliner columbias with 60 series egr'd engines, we have had numerous complaints of black smoking, spitting, sputtering and loss of power, check engine light coming on during this time. but will clear up. we have sent some to our local detroit dealer, and i asked their shop foreman what they have found, and he said a VNT adjustment. most of the codes are egr leak boost power and egr leak boost jake. the shop foreman from the dealer said to adjust these VNT vanes, you have to have a test ecm and programmed to some special engine serial number and go through a lot of technical steps, that our small shop is incapable of doing. what do any of you think other than this VNT adjustment can we do as a small shop to prevent this from happening? if anything? I think myself that the whole epa system sucks. never had problems out of turbos prior and now seems like we cant get by a month without something happening.

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IT WENT BING BANG BOOM!

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GoneFishen

Posts: 1325
Joined: Jan 2007

Sunday July 18, 2010 19:52

Your shop you went to is correct basically. You need the latest update for your DDDL laptop program. Yes on the serial # on the test ecm. I had one and gave it away when I left. HOWEVER: this does not excuse looking for other problems in the system. Popping and back fire at lower rpm's could mean tight valves. Plugged aircleaner. Damaged compressor wheel on the turbo. V=pod not having a designated air supply, low turbo speed due to stuck open egr valve. egr valve sticking open or closed. Damaged wiring to egr valve, egr cooler plugged, leaking CAC or inlet housing, Leaking CAC hoses, delta P hoses plugged, Cracked delta p base. leaking delta p hoses, delta p damaged or not reading pressure corectly, v-pod not sending correct air pressure to turbo, oldr negr have 2 v-pods, poor wire connection at the ecm, damaged or poor connection between main engine harness and sub harness located above startermotor,

2.5 hours labor and a chassis dyno will tell you everything I just explained.

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DDA tech for 30 years,all 2 cycle,series 60,50 mbe also.
1995 F250, 191k mi.
Lost Wages, Nv

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desertstormboy

Posts: 372
Joined: May 2008

Monday July 19, 2010 04:45

thanks gf....and that is a lot to check. usually we check air to air first. we have seen numerous leaking air to air coolers. we check delta p counts, remove sensor, check for clogged lines and sensor, tubes and base. we check for coolant in the intake pipe in case egr cooler is busted. we do the test to check the vpod to watch actuator move up and down, what is the normal turbo speed and can we check it on instrumentation? we keep speed sensors, cot sensors and egr temp sensors in stock. thanks again. the shop foreman said it takes about an hour for the adjustment to be done but expensive to have the proper tools to do it. their shop is about an hour away in chattanooga, so most of the time we take it to them after we do the checks we do.

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IT WENT BING BANG BOOM!

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GoneFishen

Posts: 1325
Joined: Jan 2007

Tuesday July 20, 2010 22:07

Turbo speed DDEC 5 is 15K at idle, drops to below 10K when egr is flowing at idle.
Turbo speed is about 22K for a DDEC 4 engine, again drops to below 10K when egr is flowing.
Sometimes DDDL cannot read turbo speed below 10K. Slowly, I said slowly rev the engine to 1500 and watch the egr temp. It should NOT rise. if it does the egr valve might be leaking. For an idle test egr: rev the engine -snap the throttle 3 times and egr will wake up. You will look for 5 items. turbo speed drops to below 10K, turbo inlet temp will drop, airinlet temp will rise, delta p counts will rise to around 15, and counts about 147. PW will change a little also. All should return to normal readings in about 1 minute, the computer will be pissed because egr is not supposed to flow at idle so it will shut the egr off when it realizes you have tricked it. No codes should be logged at this time unless something is not working.
I used to be good at this stuff, to bad company wanted someong to just toss parts at it to fix trucks. More money = profit regardless of customer complaints.

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DDA tech for 30 years,all 2 cycle,series 60,50 mbe also.
1995 F250, 191k mi.
Lost Wages, Nv

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desertstormboy

Posts: 372
Joined: May 2008

Wednesday July 21, 2010 05:54

thanks gf, i checked the detroit site and got the diagnostic flow chart and done all those checks. just like you said, and all of those things checked out the way it suppose to. detroit info says egr mode will quit in 3 min, but it was around 1 1/2 min like you said. i checked the shaft on the egr valve to make sure it was not stuck and even used a stubby screwdriver to manually move the shaft (of course when it was not running). and it seemed to be not sticking or catching. it is giving us the code for egr leak boost jake.

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IT WENT BING BANG BOOM!

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desertstormboy

Posts: 372
Joined: May 2008

Tuesday August 17, 2010 14:36

have been having trouble with our egr'd 14liter engines. took last one to detroit and they said that they adjusted the vnt on the turbo. well they have done this before, and my question to them is how many times do i have to bring it to you and have you adjust the vnt before actually changing out the turbo itself? the rod on the actuator doesnt seem to be that much of an adjustment and the stop screw at top either. how much out of adjustment do these have to be before causing a problem of spitting and sputtering black smoke and causing loss of power?

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IT WENT BING BANG BOOM!

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