CATEGORY LISTINGS > DETROIT > 60 series performance parts [ REFRESH ]

Thread Title: 60 series performance parts Created On Friday October 08, 2010 15:30

grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Friday October 08, 2010 15:30 4 those of u looking 4 more power & mileage, the part #s u have been looking 4 will be revealed on this forum b 4 the end of 2010. All but the turbo r stock detroit parts, that come with my second favorite word warranty. The turbo will b 1 of 2 stock turbos still being tested, we normally run 720 hp 2 the ground on the street & over 1300 2 the ground in play mode yes dyno proven! Some of you may know who I am others will question if this is for real. The CAT guys have all the cool clothes, We have the titles!! ~Mr. Series 60

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Friday October 08, 2010 17:11 Hook us up!!!
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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Saturday October 09, 2010 15:05 looking forward to this. johnny
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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Sunday October 10, 2010 11:11 I'm listening as well. I already have injectors and turbo covered. I have a cam #, but will be interested in what you have to contribute.
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Monday October 11, 2010 09:50 ok your stock engine is like having a 18 year old son,he knows when to eat. sleep. go potty and so on.. your performance engine is like a newborn babe u must feed it, burp it,change the diapers put it to bed properly. that being said u must watch your gauges more closely.do u have a large enough radiator, is the rest of your cooling system in good shape. are u smarter than your ecm, it doesnt know u changed hard parts. next u will find that combinations of parts will work best. starting point is usually performance ecm, i get mine from erich at serious series 60. for best performance he needs to know what other hard parts u have changed, or are going to change...for u ddec2 owners start with your ecm u willnot believe the difference..if you r thinking u want more try the R5234795 injectors, and stock 500 cam R23524912, u will need 2 enlarge the cam gear hole for the larger cam bolt used on the newer engines

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday October 12, 2010 09:45 ^^ I ran into the bigger cam gear bolt issue when I had already installed the 500 cam last year during a re-build!! Luckily my local dealer took it back in exchange for the stock cam with the smaller bolt hole. At the time, I didn't want to take the front cover apart. I have the 5915 injectors, ecm w/500 program and 15% increase in fuel, and the 8588 turbo. I'd eventually like to upgrade the turbo and cam, but it does run really good right now.

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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Tuesday October 12, 2010 16:17 is that 8588 turbo a factory part/garrett?
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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Tuesday October 12, 2010 16:19 what turbo are you guys running, not trying to hijack thread. thanks johnny
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Tuesday October 12, 2010 16:35 I am running borgwarner 171702 myself and 5234795 injectors with Leon's 485+15% Ecm Program truck runs strong next will be a cam when I figgure which one. The 23524912 cam has a injector height of .81mm and cam timing range of 5.03-6.10mm .0198-.0249 inches .The 23528308/309 cam looks like it would be a hotter cam to use as it has 82.1mm inj height and a timing range of 6.527-7.594mm 0.257-0.299 inch cam timing To me this looks like a real hot cam But I don't know I am just looking at the different specs on a chart I have. AMarine 12.7 cam 23525525/526 has a injector height of 81.0mm and a timing range of 6.17-6.78mm and .243-.267 inch to me the 23528308/309 cam would be a hotter cam to run ,But Like I stated I am not sure ya'll chime in please I love the direction this is going. Help us go eat some kitty kats!! Edited: Tuesday October 12, 2010 at 16:55 by stump

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Wednesday October 13, 2010 14:05 Yes, the 8588 is a factory Garret number. Stump, how does the turbo you have compare to the one Pittsburg Power sells? A friend of mine took his 14L S-60 there and had their manifold & turbo installed along with Leons ECM. It runs damn good no matter where it's at in the rpm range!
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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009

Thursday October 14, 2010 13:43 I am also running a 171702 on my 12.7 430/470 that has a 600hp program from Erich. Before I bought this 171702, I called Pittsburgh Power and asked them if what they were selling was this turbo, and all they would say was that it was very similar. So I'm guessing it is the same one. I paid $648 +$28 for shipping for a brand new BW. It performs very nice. Will build 40 lbs on my setup. ------------------------- Wayne Pontius

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Thursday October 14, 2010 15:29 I am running the 485+15% ecm, and 825hp MTU injectors and a Michigan Stage 5 turbo. I am going to get 15:1 pistons, and we are thinking of machining them to 14.5:1. I am also thinking of running the MTU 825 cam. If I go that route, I'm going to try and get the 600 program at 15% over.
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Friday October 15, 2010 12:39 Loweredd, are you sure you're not running on rails?!! LOL!! That will be some serious power. What kind of fuel mileage is everyone here seeing with their set-ups?
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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009

Friday October 15, 2010 18:57 I'm fairly happy with it. I haven't dyno'd it since the injectors or turbo. I don't shift once it gets into the high hole. I hit Arbuckle in OK on 35 a week or so ago at about 76k and ran up at about 1/2 throttle cause I was speeding. I get around 5.7. I have had better IFTA quarters, but I think she's getting worn out. I'm about 2000 miles shy of 1,000,000 right now. Edited: Friday October 15, 2010 at 19:01 by loweredd

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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009

Sunday October 17, 2010 05:28 As far as mileage, I recently bought a new ECM and had it programed to the engine serial # for a spare. I ran it a week (that's as long as I could put up with it!) and got 6.85 with it. I can get 7 with the 600hp programing and it is a pleasure to drive! I've been on a dedicated flatbed gig for the summer, out loaded and back empty grossing 57,000-79,000 with a 1996 4964F Western Star. I also have my cruise limited to 65mph and the pedal limit at 68mph. ------------------------- Wayne Pontius

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Sunday October 17, 2010 08:21 I'm usually 75-78,000. If the speedlimit is 70 or under, i will go about 2 over. If it's 75, I might go 75.
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Tuesday October 19, 2010 20:49 I'm routinely getting 6.6-6.9 grossing 70k. I have yet to break the 7 mark! Do you guys think the 8588 turbo I have is holding me back? The most boost psi I've ever seen was 33 in a hard pull on a cold day... Manual gauge.
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Wednesday October 20, 2010 09:16 Does the 8588 have a wastegate. Give me the whole number and I will compare it t what I am running.
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Wednesday October 20, 2010 20:56 Nope, non-wastegate. Garret part# 23518588. Is this the same as the one PP sells? Here is a link with pics to the one I have. http://www.thedieselstore.com/template/productOutput.php?&partNum=TUG466713-9005&VehNum= Edited: Wednesday October 20, 2010 at 21:07 by olered
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Thursday October 21, 2010 05:04 << Nope, non-wastegate. Garret part# 23518588. Is this the same as the one PP sells? Here is a link with pics to the one I have. http://www.thedieselstore.com/template/productOutput.php?&partNum=TUG466713-9005&VehNum= >> That crosses over to the Borg Warner 171702 as far as the P/N. If I can find the time to look it up at the garrett website we can compare compresor wheels etc between the 2 manufactures. I'm running the borg warner 171702 with 4795 injectors and 15% over ecm make 45lbs boost easy. I'm waiting for grampa to chime in on what he has to say.Where you at Grampa enlighten us!!

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Thursday October 21, 2010 08:48 That would be great Stump if you get the time to find the exact differences. I talked a little while today with one of the guys at Michigan Turbo. The BW 171702 is a good 20% increase in effieciency over the Garrett I have. I suppose that is the bottle neck I've put off worrying about for sometime. He also said that the BW feels like much more of a gain and that it will easily support 600 to the wheels. Above that, different compressor wheels come into play. I also talked with another shop about the differences in the chargers mentioned. The K-31 was also mentioned as a good turbo as well. A bit pricier, but with forged parts.

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Friday October 22, 2010 11:34 when it comes to turbos u need 2 have a intake pressure gauge and a exhaust pressure gauge. yup thats right an exhaust pressure gauge. if the turbo is to big poor mpg.to small hi exhaust temp.when running on the street as we do u must find a happy medium.i know most of u don't like them but the waste gate is your friend.your hi boost comes from overspeeding your turbo.i have been using a garret R23524100 stock detroit 14L turbo.they have now changed the part # and the price.i don't know about u guys but my main concern is price and availability when on the road.i am now working with holset turbos trying to figure out what will work best.all engine parts that i use are stock over the counter detroit parts from your local dealer.with new pricing on turbos,i had 2 try something new,thus the holset available on the road at D&W diesel locations &cummins shops everywhere.

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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Saturday October 23, 2010 15:55 any idea of performance improvements by changing out the stock wastegate turbo on a 430/470 to a stock 23518588. i am running a hot ecm (650). thanks , johnny
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Saturday October 23, 2010 17:17 << when it comes to turbos u need 2 have a intake pressure gauge and a exhaust pressure gauge. yup thats right an exhaust pressure gauge. if the turbo is to big poor mpg.to small hi exhaust temp.when running on the street as we do u must find a happy medium.i know most of u don't like them but the waste gate is your friend.your hi boost comes from overspeeding your turbo.i have been using a garret R23524100 stock detroit 14L turbo.they have now changed the part # and the price.i don't know about u guys but my main concern is price and availability when on the road.i am now working with holset turbos trying to figure out what will work best.all engine parts that i use are stock over the counter detroit parts from your local dealer.with new pricing on turbos,i had 2 try something new,thus the holset available on the road at D&W diesel locations &cummins shops everywhere. >> Grampa, my boost PSI is about 45 Lbs under a hard pull 1700 RPM's direct gear exhaust temp about 900 dF never any more I don't have a Psi gage in exhaust but system is free flowing. 4795 injectors and leon's 485+15% Ecm program.Are you the fellow he told me about that made that Huge HP at the Dyno and was asked not to come back because you made the Caterpillers unhappy!?LOL

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Saturday October 23, 2010 17:27 << any idea of performance improvements by changing out the stock wastegate turbo on a 430/470 to a stock 23518588. i am running a hot ecm (650). thanks , johnny >> Read Grampa's previous post his turbo will support a lot of HP GARRETT PERFORMANCE TURBOCHARGERS BY TURBOTECH Garrett Garrett part number Garrett SB Actuator Est Hp Bearing Wet / Comp wheel Comp Comp hsg Turbine Turbine Retail price Special price Model number P/N & PSI system Dry trim hsg A/R connections wheel trim hsg A/R plus GST Plus GST GT4782 707866-0001 1350 std dry 81.6mm - 52 0.96 127/108mm hose 80.2mm - 84 1.27 $2,046.00 $1,682.00 Specs on 171702 borg warner Turbo Part Number Comp.Map Comp.Spec Comp. Wheel O.D. Comp. Wheel Inducer Dia Comp Wheel Max Speed m/s Turb Spec. Turb. Wheel OD Turb. Wheel Exducer Turb. Housing Part No. Turb. A/R Turbine Housing Config Comp. Housing Config. Turbine Housing Discharge A B C D E F G H I J 171701 112269.T1 100/45BB-GM 3.944 2.799 580 96TM1 3.768 3.467 171698 1.32 Twin V-Band V-Band 5.00 5.55 5.34 n/a 5.75 4.44 2.75 3.13 4.21 n/a 171702 112269.T2 100/51AG-GM 3.944 2.935 580 96TM1 3.768 3.467 171698 1.32 Twin V-Band V-Band 5.00 5.55 5.34 n/a 5.75 4.44 2.75 3.13 4.21 n/a

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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Saturday October 23, 2010 17:34 the reasoning behind the 8588 is that i have one of those already. i picked up a fresh rebuilt 500 hp motor this week out of a wreck. was thinking of switching out the turbos. johnny
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Saturday October 23, 2010 17:48 Try it out and let us know,Heck you have it The 8588 crosses to the 171702 that I run except it is a garrett and not a BW.I think the BW has a better compressor wheel myself. But since you have it try it out a couple hrs labor and we'll know,you can always put the other back on!
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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Saturday October 23, 2010 19:16 that's the plan. will keep you posted. johnny
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Sunday October 24, 2010 06:26 yes stump that,s me. 2002 diesel nationals englishtown NJ double D class winner 16.34 at 87 mph with a every day driver weighing 20,000 lbs. 2003 horsepower shootout streetclass winner 1230 HP to the ground at alban cat MD. also won ATPA NY state open street championship 2004 & 2006...WV ATPA 2005 open street championship....heart of IL fair NTPA open street winner..this was the sweetest it is held at the home of the yellow people.. Peoria and the only green motor there won bigtime ...GO TEAM MEAN GREEN...and around 25-30 other truck pull wins in 2004&2005..the truck is known as GRAMPAS TOY...and for the doubters out there its all a matter of public records.do i think i know everything not by a long shot..sometimes as dumb as a rock ..some luck,,good friends,,and being able to think outside the box. and u must realize with all these wins & titles AND $2 i can get a cup of coffee almost anywhere

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Sunday October 24, 2010 06:35 sorry to be so long winded..just remember what we say.. THE CATS ARE ALL YELLOW... making the world greener one truck at a time TEAM MEAN GREEN
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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Sunday October 24, 2010 06:52 So, what was the 1230hp parts combo? I read about that years ago in a Bruce article from Pittsburg Power.
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Sunday October 24, 2010 07:08 << yes stump that,s me. 2002 diesel nationals englishtown NJ double D class winner 16.34 at 87 mph with a every day driver weighing 20,000 lbs. 2003 horsepower shootout streetclass winner 1230 HP to the ground at alban cat MD. also won ATPA NY state open street championship 2004 & 2006...WV ATPA 2005 open street championship....heart of IL fair NTPA open street winner..this was the sweetest it is held at the home of the yellow people.. Peoria and the only green motor there won bigtime ...GO TEAM MEAN GREEN...and around 25-30 other truck pull wins in 2004&2005..the truck is known as GRAMPAS TOY...and for the doubters out there its all a matter of public records.do i think i know everything not by a long shot..sometimes as dumb as a rock ..some luck,,good friends,,and being able to think outside the box. and u must realize with all these wins & titles AND $2 i can get a cup of coffee almost anywhere >> Well it's a pleasure to meet you!! I have read in detail everything I can about Detroits and Big HP and would really appreciate your input and suggestions and I will buy the coffee anytime,Heck I even buy dinner!!LOL

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Sunday October 24, 2010 17:20 yes bruce was the MC at the event and this is where i first met him in 2003 at alban cat..if u run the time line u will see me and my friend JC are the original series 60 people..everyone says this part u get this much HP,that part this much and so on.first and formost i cannot stress enough it is a combination...what are u working with ddec 2 3 4 5 425,430,470,500 premium 500, 515, 550, 575...do u have cast or forged pistons..does your engine have piston coolers..we have done what some would say is some pretty stupid things..run our engine at 4000 RPM nope didn,t break a thing,,amazing what u will try when u want to win..N.O.S. yup been there done that, works great.i guess what i am trying to get across is there are combos for big HP for short runs or passes,then combos for every day good HP and mileage.this is where part cost and availability is king..a performance ECM is the key to make it all work.

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Monday October 25, 2010 04:37 Grampa Mine is a 1995 Pete 379 witha 430/470 It had a DDEC3 ECM it went bad and now I have a DDEC4 ECM and Leon put in a485 program w 15% over. I have the stock pistons and run 5234795 injectors and the BW 171702 turbo.I have a Huge Radiator and heat is not a problem The pyro never goes any higher that about 900 degrees. Turbo boost press will climb up to around 45psi when wound up,It's a lot of fun to drive ,but I am up to suggestions to inprove it. I have another question If you were going to build a everyday engine for the street and work it everyday for milage and performance what would you build?12.7 or 14L What would you use in the chosen engine?

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Monday October 25, 2010 07:45 Good questions stump. Grampa, at what point in upping the hp does NOT having piston coolers come into play? Mine is a DDEC III and does not have piston coolers and has cast pistons.
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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Monday October 25, 2010 08:10 DDEC3.........Give me a good low compression forged piston cylinder kit# .
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BUTCH Posts: 256 Joined: Jan 2009	Saturday October 30, 2010 17:11 Is there a program to increase a 430 to 25 percent more rpm and power ------------------------- IM A 35 YR OWNER OPERATOR
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Saturday October 30, 2010 17:45 Butch on a DDEC 3 the most popular performance program is the 600 HP 2400 RPM. RPM can be set at whatever makes u happy. most performance programs will add from 75 to 100 HP.u change alot of the factory settings.most detroits will not get fuel nomatter how far u push the pedal until u get 8 lbs of boost.not very helpfull if u run heavy haul.hard to get it moving from a dead stop..just call Erich at SERIOUS SERIES 60 570-412-0754 he will give u a 30 day money back guarranty.if u don't like the program he will reinstall your stock program and send your money back.but i gotta tell u from what he tells me nobody has asked for there money back yet.what have u got to lose..he also sells the LIPE clutchs rated at 2400 ft lbs of torque.also motorsports clutches for pullin & drag racing..

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Saturday October 30, 2010 17:54 So what's the cylinder kits to use here?
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Saturday October 30, 2010 18:23 STUMP i'am a 1 truck o/o like most of u.never had a 14 liter, lack of funds like every else..a few months back i was given a DDEC 5 14 liter with a blown head gasket.hoping work will stay steady this winter so i can build it and find out.i pull a dump bucket most of the time.lately on a regular run with overweight permit.i have to think that more torque pulling overweight would yield better mileage.only time will tell..i don't care what anyone says one size will not fit all..the combinations of parts that i have used have worked well for me and i would think for most.but i would also think that alot of people have tryed parts that i have not..i think u said u have a DDEC 3 engine with R5234795 injectors, i have had good luck with these in DDEC 2 engines..DDEC 3 &4 i would use R5235915 if u wanted a little more R5237014..if u want 2 get real serious there r special order injectors that r rather pricey..and rather large for street use in most cases..

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Saturday October 30, 2010 18:38 LOWEREDD what are we starting with, different cylinder kits as u know have different pistons. do u have rods that bolt to the wrist pin or the rods that the wrist pin slides thru. early engines had narrower throws on the crankshaft and few had piston coolers..some later engines had the wider throws so u could use the better rods and cylinder kits..some blocks are drilled for piston coolers and then plugged , coolers where not needed for lower HP settings

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Saturday October 30, 2010 18:48 I've got a 98 DDEC3 430. Haven't had it apart to see the wristpin style.
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Saturday November 06, 2010 18:24 Loweredd call your local DD dealer give him your engine serial # & ask for the crankshaft part #..let me know what it is..also your piston cooler part #..it is possible your engine has oil cooler holes that are plugged..some later blocks came this way with the lower HP rating..hard to tell without removing the pan and looking..
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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009	Sunday November 07, 2010 02:29 Grampa, I will have my oil pan off soon, can you tell us where to look for these plugs? And if they are there, is it simply a matter of acquiring 6 nozzles and installing them? Will this effect the engine oil pressure? I do know I don't have them, but the plugs, I'm not sure. Thanks for the info! ------------------------- Wayne Pontius
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Sunday November 07, 2010 05:28 The first blocks that were drilled for cooling nozzels started on May 2 1998 with engine number 6R408505. Non premium engines with cast iron pistons have the lubrication orifices closed with bolt on steel plates.So if your engine is after 6R408505 it will/should have oil cooler holes.
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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Sunday November 07, 2010 08:14 Well, mine is 0388708, so I better quit with what I've got.
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Friday November 26, 2010 17:29 ok the cam i have had the best luck with is a R23525526 it is a 700 HP 12.7 cam..stock cam timing, 81mm injector height,.010 intake,.028 exhaust,,this is the cam used for play time & worked well for me on the street..still like the R23524100 turbo but has become very pricey..now working with holsets, will comment when i have results..
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phantom309 Posts: 14 Joined: Feb 2009

Sunday November 28, 2010 18:24 A long time back i read of the 12.7 motor that made more horses than the cats,. i had a ddec 2 430,. i used to day dream of more horses,.i had B model cats before that detroit, and they could make horsepower,. The 430 was anemic,. i phoned pittsburgh one day and had my hopes and dreams crushed by unattainable priced parts,.and programming then 1 day i managed to tie into a thread on another forum, and "stump" put me in touch with leon,.by this time i,d got rid of the ddec2 and was driving for someone else again,. but i still have a 96 kw 900L with a detroit in it kinda fixing it up as my toy its in right now getting painted italian red,.,. so i sent leon the ecm,. but it turns out i have a mongrel,. a ddec 2.5? (why is it always me) and to get good programming i need to change the reluctor wheel? to match up to a ddec 3,.and for some reason the speedo doesn't work now,. so i have a hot ecm,. but not sure on the horsepower,. i,ve been looking for no BS answers for so long, and it almost makes jump for joy to know what parts i can get,. i want my series 60 to pull past the big cats i work with everyday,. i have been hauling gravel,. (coal bucket to you amurhicans) for nearly 20 yrs,.always heavy,. over 130,000lbs,.and theres a fair bit of bragging around here, there,s been some carnage too with the "boxes" Thankyou grampa, and the rest of you guys, for being so forthcoming,.trucking used to be fun,.and i,d like it to be that way again,. with a real strong motor than can get decent fuel mileage if the grinning idiot behind the wheel can drive it respectfully,. Nick thanks stump,. ------------------------- If i could have what i want,. i wouldn't want what i have. Edited: Sunday November 28, 2010 at 18:25 by phantom309

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jsnap Posts: 53 Joined: Feb 2008

Sunday November 28, 2010 20:38 << A long time back i read of the 12.7 motor that made more horses than the cats,. i had a ddec 2 430,. i used to day dream of more horses,.i had B model cats before that detroit, and they could make horsepower,. The 430 was anemic,. i phoned pittsburgh one day and had my hopes and dreams crushed by unattainable priced parts,.and programming then 1 day i managed to tie into a thread on another forum, and "stump" put me in touch with leon,.by this time i,d got rid of the ddec2 and was driving for someone else again,. but i still have a 96 kw 900L with a detroit in it kinda fixing it up as my toy its in right now getting painted italian red,.,. so i sent leon the ecm,. but it turns out i have a mongrel,. a ddec 2.5? (why is it always me) and to get good programming i need to change the reluctor wheel? to match up to a ddec 3,.and for some reason the speedo doesn't work now,. so i have a hot ecm,. but not sure on the horsepower,. i,ve been looking for no BS answers for so long, and it almost makes jump for joy to know what parts i can get,. i want my series 60 to pull past the big cats i work with everyday,. i have been hauling gravel,. (coal bucket to you amurhicans) for nearly 20 yrs,.always heavy,. over 130,000lbs,.and theres a fair bit of bragging around here, there,s been some carnage too with the "boxes" Thankyou grampa, and the rest of you guys, for being so forthcoming,.trucking used to be fun,.and i,d like it to be that way again,. with a real strong motor than can get decent fuel mileage if the grinning idiot behind the wheel can drive it respectfully,. Nick thanks stump,. >> Who is Leon is he a HP programmer? If so please provide contact info ill try him thanks. Richie

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Monday November 29, 2010 08:25 << << A long time back i read of the 12.7 motor that made more horses than the cats,. i had a ddec 2 430,. i used to day dream of more horses,.i had B model cats before that detroit, and they could make horsepower,. The 430 was anemic,. i phoned pittsburgh one day and had my hopes and dreams crushed by unattainable priced parts,.and programming then 1 day i managed to tie into a thread on another forum, and "stump" put me in touch with leon,.by this time i,d got rid of the ddec2 and was driving for someone else again,. but i still have a 96 kw 900L with a detroit in it kinda fixing it up as my toy its in right now getting painted italian red,.,. so i sent leon the ecm,. but it turns out i have a mongrel,. a ddec 2.5? (why is it always me) and to get good programming i need to change the reluctor wheel? to match up to a ddec 3,.and for some reason the speedo doesn't work now,. so i have a hot ecm,. but not sure on the horsepower,. i,ve been looking for no BS answers for so long, and it almost makes jump for joy to know what parts i can get,. i want my series 60 to pull past the big cats i work with everyday,. i have been hauling gravel,. (coal bucket to you amurhicans) for nearly 20 yrs,.always heavy,. over 130,000lbs,.and theres a fair bit of bragging around here, there,s been some carnage too with the "boxes" Thankyou grampa, and the rest of you guys, for being so forthcoming,.trucking used to be fun,.and i,d like it to be that way again,. with a real strong motor than can get decent fuel mileage if the grinning idiot behind the wheel can drive it respectfully,. Nick thanks stump,. >> Who is Leon is he a HP programmer? If so please provide contact info ill try him thanks. Richie >> Contact Erich at seriousseries60 and he will help you with your ECM E-mail me at stumpman1@hotmail.com for info.

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Monday November 29, 2010 10:15 Erich??? Why not Leon? I would bet Leon is WAY less than Erich.
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jsnap Posts: 53 Joined: Feb 2008	Monday November 29, 2010 17:11 << Erich??? Why not Leon? I would bet Leon is WAY less than Erich. >> I dont mean to upset anyone but I have spoken to Erich and again with know disrespect to anyone his quote was BUKO unrealistic to me, so please if Leon does the same type of work Erich does can somone provide me the contact info please thanks. Richie
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Tuesday November 30, 2010 06:53 Tiptoe, Tiptoe!!!
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday November 30, 2010 07:02 << I have another question If you were going to build a everyday engine for the street and work it everyday for milage and performance what would you build?12.7 or 14L What would you use in the chosen engine? >> Stump, a friend of mine has a 14L with the 'hot' 14 liter program +15%, BW turbo. It runs very well and he is consistently in the low 7's nearly grossed all the time. After I give the BW turbo a try sometime during Christmas, I'm thinking about running the 14L program on my 12.7.

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Tuesday November 30, 2010 07:03 I don't tiptoe.
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Wednesday December 01, 2010 00:02 Me neither Lower...
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snapon2 Posts: 37 Joined: Jun 2009	Thursday December 02, 2010 02:48 if in canada there is a tech in grande prairie alberta that also tunes ecms ------------------------- 25 year detroit diesel tech,gone trucking . have a 2007 f/l series 60 egr tri drive with 660 rwhp .egr removed
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jsnap Posts: 53 Joined: Feb 2008	Thursday December 02, 2010 11:42 I spoke to one of the programmers about doing up ddec 3 11.1 and he mentioned to me about using a 12.7 program on the 11.1. Tell me what you guys think about that has it been done and would it cause any hardware (engine) damage?
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010

Thursday December 02, 2010 14:38 I talked to Erich. I have a 95' 11.1 365 h.p. ser 60 det. he said he could help me. the cost was more than I can justify right now. I have heard of anothr person on another forum that offers ecm upgrades for far less. I do not endorse one or the another, as I never used their service. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DETROIT-DIESEL-DDEC-III-IV-ECM-700HP-CUSTOM-PROGRAMMING-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem58846438e6QQitemZ380178282726QQptZOtherQ5fVehicleQ5fParts#ht_1539wt_958 ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS

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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010

Thursday December 02, 2010 14:41 << I talked to Erich. I have a 95' 11.1 365 h.p. ser 60 det. he said he could help me. the cost was more than I can justify right now. I have heard of anothr person on another forum that offers ecm upgrades for far less. I do not endorse one or the another, as I never used their service. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DETROIT-DIESEL-DDEC-III-IV-ECM-700HP-CUSTOM-PROGRAMMING-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem58846438e6QQitemZ380178282726QQptZOtherQ5fVehicleQ5fParts#ht_1539wt_958 >> you can copy & past this in your browser & look at another option. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS

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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Saturday December 04, 2010 10:31 i had mine programmed by this guy. awesome, awesome, awesome
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Saturday December 04, 2010 11:22 << i had mine programmed by this guy. awesome, awesome, awesome >> wich guy ? erich or brad? did you have a detroit? please give info on your upgrade. thank you. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Saturday December 04, 2010 12:12 brad did mine. i meet with him in macon. awesome guy. i have a 12.7 originally rated at 430/500. then upped to 500 straight. brad took it to 650. excellent power , excellent mpg. no hard parts at all.can't beat the price either.
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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009	Saturday December 04, 2010 14:33 Anybody know about the guy in Sanford, FL? He sells performance modules on ebay. A friend talked to him on the phone and was told he could also program his DDEC 5 to 800HP if he sent it to him. So... does anybody know of this guy? ------------------------- Wayne Pontius
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Saturday December 04, 2010 16:29 << brad did mine. i meet with him in macon. awesome guy. i have a 12.7 originally rated at 430/500. then upped to 500 straight. brad took it to 650. excellent power , excellent mpg. no hard parts at all.can't beat the price either. >> thank you for that info. I know you from another forum, just forget wich one. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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snapon2 Posts: 37 Joined: Jun 2009	Saturday December 04, 2010 21:17 11.1 has diffrent bull gear than a 12.7.the timing pin is in a diffrent location and the programming matches that. ------------------------- 25 year detroit diesel tech,gone trucking . have a 2007 f/l series 60 egr tri drive with 660 rwhp .egr removed
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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Sunday December 05, 2010 05:16 i trash around on trucker's report , keep tabs on things over at diesel garage, garage journal , and try to feed my habits on ebay. i've run across your handle as well. really like this forum. johnny
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010

Wednesday December 08, 2010 10:27 << i trash around on trucker's report , keep tabs on things over at diesel garage, garage journal , and try to feed my habits on ebay. i've run across your handle as well. really like this forum. johnny >> o.k truckers report, is where I see you. I was just looking at a post someone put up. brad had offer of ecm upgrade for$250.00 other offers also. his latest I saw was on ebay. I think $1500 for a ecm with reprograming with a good core or $2100 with out core, or $250.00 if you send him yours & fex ex next day return. I talked to Erich. I have no idea the differnce of each guy's talent on these ecm upgrades, but $950.00 to $250.00 is a big money difference. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS

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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Wednesday December 08, 2010 18:06 i had mine done and so did my buddy by him. can't say enough. send him your ecm, or like i did load thru and he met me. great guy.
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Wednesday December 08, 2010 18:50 << i had mine done and so did my buddy by him. can't say enough. send him your ecm, or like i did load thru and he met me. great guy. >> thank you for the info & I appreciate the post on how pleased you were. at least I HAVE SOMETHING TO GO ON. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Thursday December 09, 2010 17:11 Holy crap, $950!!!
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010

Thursday December 09, 2010 20:29 << Holy crap, $950!!! >> Yeah I know. thats why I wanted to get info on brad. I also thought if ya get what ya paid for, then I would rather pay the $950.00 I have just recently looked into the e.c.m. upgrade. but the guys who do it, I figured would be more competitive, especially the individuals like Brad & Erich. if I were Erich I would call brad posing as a potential customer & find out what he does & then make my prices competitive or be able to expalin & justify to my customers why my price is over 3 times higher. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Thursday December 16, 2010 20:08 A question for loweredd and anybody else that wants to chime in... I'm going to get the BW 171702 turbo later next week and give it a shot to see if my old turbo is the bottleneck on my setup. Where is the best place to purchase this from that'll back it up just in case it is a dud? Lower, by stage 5 turbo, what do you mean exactly? With my 5915 injectors, 485hp +15% program, would the 171702 be enough in its stock form, or would I benefit from something more?

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Thursday December 16, 2010 20:19 << Lower, by stage 5 turbo, what do you mean exactly? >> It's a Stage 5 turbo from Michigan Turbo. I believe it is one of the biggest they do. Don't know if there is a Stage 6. It has a 1.60 exhaust housing, and has a Cat outlet compressor housing. I don't remember the a/r on it.
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Thursday December 16, 2010 21:15 << A question for loweredd and anybody else that wants to chime in... I'm going to get the BW 171702 turbo later next week and give it a shot to see if my old turbo is the bottleneck on my setup. Where is the best place to purchase this from that'll back it up just in case it is a dud? Lower, by stage 5 turbo, what do you mean exactly? With my 5915 injectors, 485hp +15% program, would the 171702 be enough in its stock form, or would I benefit from something more? >> What Turbo are you running now? The 171702 will be a good selection with your parts combination.Truck Pro has them in stock Brand New No core charge just short of $600.00 bucks Edited: Thursday December 16, 2010 at 21:22 by stump

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009

Thursday December 16, 2010 21:48 A friend that just got a DDEC4 back from Leon has a 702 on his. He got a 500+15%, and he can peg a KW boost gauge. In fact, he said that if he stays in it, his computer has flashed a high boost code at him. He has stock injectors. I don't know if his high boost is from overspeeding his turbo though. Everybody that has a 702 that I know of, or have heard about, is happy with it. Plus, you can't beat the price! I was told a 24100 is a good turbo too, but it's wastegated. 6" inlet though, which mine is, and I really like that, compared to the smaller Borg 5".

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Thursday December 16, 2010 22:52 Thanks for the info lower. Thanks for the heads up about Truck Pro Stump. That is a hell of a price! I'll give my local shop a ring first thing tomorrow. I'm currently using the Garrett 8588 turbo that I listed earlier in the thread. I put it on new two years ago when I did my rebuild. I was told it was one of the better detroit 'stock' reman turbos. At the time, I wasn't aware of the BW nor had I done much research about the different turbos at that time. It does ok, but I have a chance to sell it for about half of what I can get the BW for...

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arlogger Posts: 7 Joined: May 2010	Saturday December 18, 2010 05:25 Will disconnecting the hose from the wastegate make the turbo spool quicker or just make more boost? Also will this harm the motor. The engine is a 500 detriot. Have just installed new turbo,cooler,all boots and had overhead ran. The motor seems slow responding from take off. All info will be appreciated.
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Saturday December 18, 2010 09:23 << Will disconnecting the hose from the wastegate make the turbo spool quicker or just make more boost? Also will this harm the motor. The engine is a 500 detriot. Have just installed new turbo,cooler,all boots and had overhead ran. The motor seems slow responding from take off. All info will be appreciated. >> No. What year engine do you have .Give us some more information and maby we can figgure it out.

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arlogger Posts: 7 Joined: May 2010	Saturday December 18, 2010 09:44 1998 500hp 12.7liter, ECM DDEC IV 100,000 on inframe 10 speed rockwell, .72 overdrive in 10th gear 4:35 rear gear Will there be any power increase by disconnect wastegate hose? Will it effect fuel mileage? All info appreciated.
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Saturday December 18, 2010 11:37 No you don't want to disconnect the hose. I would start with the simple stuff,First look at the air filters are they clean,next check all the hoses on the intake piping make sure none have split Look at the one on the drivers side that comes out the bottom of the intake and goes to the air compressor also.Next I would pressurize the CAC and intake piping ,check all joints etc with soap bubbles on intake manifold etc to see if it's leaking.Then completly disconnect and Pressureize the CAC to 25 psi shut off air supply if pressure drops more than 5psi in 15 seconds CAC is defective.

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Saturday December 18, 2010 16:00 I gotta tell ya i'm almost sorry i started this thread..first time I ever responded to performance questions..so much negativity,,so much arrogance,,from people who seem to know so little,,let me help u out,,there are about 4 or 5 people who are capable of programing your ecm on any given day..some are factory R&D people..some are retired R&D people..only 1 that I know is factory connected with there blessing,with ongoing R&D capability..U can believe whoever U want, whenever U want,, really makes no difference 2 me..just trying to spread some information..who am I, nobody..go back to the beginning of the thread, read it again, make your own decisions,who has been there from day 1,who may, or who may not know all the players..believe it or not this is a team sport..as a wise man once said TIPTOE TIPTOE............at least until U know the real players.......MERRY CHRISTMAS GRAMPA

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arlogger Posts: 7 Joined: May 2010	Sunday December 19, 2010 05:27 Air filters good. They system has all new boots, cooler and was pressured by Detriot shop and passed.
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arlogger Posts: 7 Joined: May 2010	Sunday December 19, 2010 05:31 Have talked to a couple of people about ecm, just what effect does unplugging the hose from wastegate have and is there any performane gain?
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JoeZ Posts: 938 Joined: Dec 2008

Sunday December 19, 2010 07:01 Well pops....it's like this....I have only read some of the Q & A on this post just for that reason but I never responded. A few good responses and the rest a load of BS. That's the great part of this....you can pick and choose. I have had a few times here on this forum when it almost became an argument just to prove a point. I'm 62 and I still learn something every day. I run my own shop so I do it my way and whatever works for me may not work for the next guy. I totally stay away from performance modifications for one reason or should I say several. Before I knew better, I would do anything within reason for performance. I am in Florida, but up to recently I had a shop in NJ too. There trucks had to pass an emission/smoke test. So we were certified to do the tests. Then when the performance modification came in...the emission went out the door. So after paying a few fines and the threat of losing the state certification....I gave up on performance. You bring the part....and I'll bolt it on...no more....no less. But the bill will reflect just that. I'm getting out of the business.....taking early retirement....going to spend some of my money before the higher powers burn through it all....and I have to tell you.....I don't believe I will miss this business. ------------------------- One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left. 44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Sunday December 19, 2010 08:17 << I gotta tell ya i'm almost sorry i started this thread..first time I ever responded to performance questions..so much negativity,,so much arrogance,,from people who seem to know so little,,let me help u out,,there are about 4 or 5 people who are capable of programing your ecm on any given day..some are factory R&D people..some are retired R&D people..only 1 that I know is factory connected with there blessing,with ongoing R&D capability..U can believe whoever U want, whenever U want,, really makes no difference 2 me..just trying to spread some information..who am I, nobody..go back to the beginning of the thread, read it again, make your own decisions,who has been there from day 1,who may, or who may not know all the players..believe it or not this is a team sport..as a wise man once said TIPTOE TIPTOE............at least until U know the real players.......MERRY CHRISTMAS GRAMPA >> I dont really understand the above but,MERRY CHRISTMAS to you Grampa!!!

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Sunday December 19, 2010 08:45 Let the laundry air then... Thank goodness for the ONE factory connected person who REALLY knows how this all works! I just hope that people do not try and take advantage of that. I for one am appreciative. Don't be sorry for starting this thread grampa, public forums have their own way of weeding out the dandelions. Besides, I think most of us are looking to learn from any real information such as you have presented.

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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010

Sunday December 19, 2010 17:14 I have not noticed any arrogance or negative remarks on this post. I thought all of it was, every one putting in their share if info & knowledge, in wich I appreciate. different perpectives, different points of views & disagreements are part of any dialog. as long as it stay's civil & no one attacking another, it is what these sights are meant to be, I thought. Merry Christmas to all. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009

Sunday December 19, 2010 20:49 What I don't like is people charging more for stock parts. Like a 100% mark up on an off the shelf Borg turbo. Or people that know the parts to use, but keep quiet. Or, charging 3x more to do the same ecm programming you can get elsewhere. I am all for making profits, but holy cow, come on! I was excited when I first read this, but it seems to have turned into just another Cat style hush hush game.

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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010

Monday December 20, 2010 13:46 I have been thinking, & this discussion is exactly the way it is supposed to work. let the marketplace dictate the tems & prices. if someone charges more for a service, that person has to compete in the marketplace. if that person has exclusive service or parts, then that person will justify his prices. if only a couple of people possess the skills enabling them to be a cut above the rest. they will get the references & they will not lose any sales. we will be better informed. I like folks who post their experience & prices. anyone who has a good product or service at a reasonable price should be shared. at the same time any one who is not competitive, that info should also be shared. I dont look at is as being biased or bashing any one person or co. this dialog is what makes everything affordable to us truckers. we need to say to mr. X... hey, mr. y has a similair e.c.m upgrade at $700.00 less than yours. how is yours different? I would be willing to pay more for superior service, not for the same service. this makes it better for all. even if the guy charging a lot more for the same thing, cause now he has to compete, so now he comes up with more & better ways, & more options to keep his customers & to get more new customers. I have talked to a lot of folks reguarding e.c.m. upgrades. one guy who does it has rave reviews all who use him, though one downside is he is hard to communicate with. you may have to wait rwice as long to get e.c.m. back & he has been known to not return calls for weeks. now this was told to me a few months ago. now this guy would of had to pay more attn to his customers to keep them comming back or keep them refering others. I dont know if he has changed his service as far as communication, but I would not deal with him unless he has. I will only know by folks who use his service & report their results. THAT is the way it is supposed to be. i.m.o of course. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Monday December 20, 2010 14:22 ^^ Dang good points!!
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phantom309 Posts: 14 Joined: Feb 2009

Tuesday December 21, 2010 18:13 questions,. a ddec 3,... is a 526 cam really a little too much for the 171702 turbo with 5915 injectors? would a 620 cam be better with the 5915's and 171702? or a stock 500 hp cam? (whats the part#??) How much torque will/can it make? where,s the torque/horsepower band with these upgrades? will it survive at 700hp without piston oilers? thanks Nick ------------------------- If i could have what i want,. i wouldn't want what i have. Edited: Tuesday December 21, 2010 at 18:45 by phantom309

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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Thursday December 23, 2010 15:54 this has been a very good post. thanks to everyone who has put out info. Merry Christmas to all of you. johnny
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Thursday December 23, 2010 19:17 stock 500 cam R23524912 great up grade for DDEC 2,remember it takes the bigger cam bolt..the 700 12.7 cam R23525526 has worked well for me on the street..your peak torque will move up about 200 rpm, and it will run real hard to about 2800 RPM..as far as cast pistons & no coolers harder on pistons ???keep in mind the lower the RPM when making more HP the harder it is on the bottom end...no more pulling that hill at 1200-1500 RPM let it spin a little faster..with more HP, RPM is now your friend..when u r pedal 2 the metal at any RPM & the engine cannot gain RPM that is lugging..stock engine not that big a deal..turn her up, she won't like it 1 bit..there are a lot of cast piston no cooler engines turned up, u have got to watch the gauges & drive accordingly..

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Thursday December 23, 2010 19:20 above post is reply to lastgoodusername, 1 day i'll figure out how this dam thing works
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Thursday December 23, 2010 19:23 sorry phantom 309 see what i mean
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Tuesday December 28, 2010 21:23 Picking up the BW 702 tomorrow. I'll give my impressions over what I have now after the weekend. Thanks again stump for the lead to TruckPro. $590 out the door....
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Wednesday December 29, 2010 06:17 << Picking up the BW 702 tomorrow. I'll give my impressions over what I have now after the weekend. Thanks again stump for the lead to TruckPro. $590 out the door.... >> ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Saturday January 01, 2011 10:12 After a few hours of changing turbos, I saw 32# boost bobtail... Felt a little more stout but obviously I won't be able to really tell until under a load.
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Saturday January 01, 2011 13:03 << Picking up the BW 702 tomorrow. I'll give my impressions over what I have now after the weekend. Thanks again stump for the lead to TruckPro. $590 out the door.... >> would this same turbo work on a 11.1 ser 60 det 365 h.p. ? ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Saturday January 01, 2011 19:36 heavyhaulerss.. why not just install a 500 HP program..
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010

Saturday January 01, 2011 20:14 << heavyhaulerss.. why not just install a 500 HP program.. >> that was my next question. I just had an inframe done approx 60,000 miles ago. wanted to make sure it out worked out well. though I still have a sluggish truck. as long as I do not have to change anything else. I dont mind the turbo, cause it has never been replaced, but I do not want to change out all kinds of hard parts, after paying for the inframe. having a more h.p. programed into my e.c.m. & a new turbo, is fine. after talking with a few detroit dealers & giving them my engine ser num, they said it could not be upped on the h.p. I think it can. there are programs to go to 650 -700 from a 12.7 500h.p. det. so why not a 11.1 365 h.p. going to a 500 h.p. even a 425 h.p. would do me good. a lil more power & a lil better m.p.g. I would be all kind of happy. the last time I had any power was after having a 6 pack put in by neely coble freightliner dealer. they must had somehow turned the fuel up, caus after I got truck back it put out the black smoke, but it had more power & better m.p.g. than ever. they put in 12.7 injectors. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Saturday January 01, 2011 20:40 << << Picking up the BW 702 tomorrow. I'll give my impressions over what I have now after the weekend. Thanks again stump for the lead to TruckPro. $590 out the door.... >> would this same turbo work on a 11.1 ser 60 det 365 h.p. ? >> I'm not sure about that heavy. Not familar with the 11.1's at all. As long as the physical dimensions of the 12.7 and 11.1 parts are the same, I'd say probably so. Either way, go with what grampa said first. Get your ECM re-programmed by someone known through here. You will not believe the difference overall. I'm not gonna get into who to send it to, but there are many in this thread who can direct you to have it done right. A Detroit dealer won't be able to get you what you can get through the few known here. As a matter of fact, when I had my truck dynoed this summer, the Clarke manager ask me for the information to contact who programmed mine. I told him google was his friend!! He hadn't seen a 12.7 do that good before... Edited: Saturday January 01, 2011 at 20:43 by olered

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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Saturday January 01, 2011 21:18 Thank you! ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009

Saturday January 01, 2011 21:27 I remember the 4 guys in Salina at Detroit when I dyno'd mine stock with just the ECM. It was awesome. Every Detroit guy will tell you it's not possible. I think they are brainwashed or something. I know there are quite a few Detroit techs that would have fits if they knew what my little 430 was putting to the wheels now. I know that if I gave them my serial number and wanted a straight 500 program, they would say that it doesn't have the right parts to support that. Heck, it did that to the wheels BEFORE the turbo, injectors, and exhaust manifold.

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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Sunday January 02, 2011 07:19 Great news. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Sunday January 02, 2011 07:55 << I remember the 4 guys in Salina at Detroit when I dyno'd mine stock with just the ECM. It was awesome. Every Detroit guy will tell you it's not possible. I think they are brainwashed or something. You have to be a conciencious driver when you run these programs. You have to pay attention to what the truck is telling you. Look around any truck stop at what is driving in,Most of them are lucky they got the proper shoe on the correct foot!!Thats why the dealers say that! They have to provide dependability for the Meat in the Seat crowd that tries to destroy the equipment!!

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Sunday January 02, 2011 08:20 It might be a little bit of that, but I think the majority is that they think it's not possible. Another guy we know with a program was told numerous times that his truck wouldn't run with the program. My dad has a bigger turbo, and some 14L injectors, and has been told that his truck won't run right with those parts..........it's had the turbo on for a couple years.
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010

Sunday January 02, 2011 12:39 << << << Picking up the BW 702 tomorrow. I'll give my impressions over what I have now after the weekend. Thanks again stump for the lead to TruckPro. $590 out the door.... >> would this same turbo work on a 11.1 ser 60 det 365 h.p. ? >> I'm not sure about that heavy. Not familar with the 11.1's at all. As long as the physical dimensions of the 12.7 and 11.1 parts are the same, I'd say probably so. Either way, go with what grampa said first. Get your ECM re-programmed by someone known through here. You will not believe the difference overall. I'm not gonna get into who to send it to, but there are many in this thread who can direct you to have it done right. A Detroit dealer won't be able to get you what you can get through the few known here. As a matter of fact, when I had my truck dynoed this summer, the Clarke manager ask me for the information to contact who programmed mine. I told him google was his friend!! He hadn't seen a 12.7 do that good before... >> I just googled the turbo num you have here & it appears that turbo is for the 11.1 so I guess it would work fine. you are running a 12.7 correct? here is the link to what I found under that turbo num. http://www.fleetsource.com/Detroit_60_Series_Turbo_171702_Factory_New_No_Core_p/171702.htm ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Sunday January 02, 2011 18:31 ^^ Yes, I have a 12.7. It should be fine for the 11.1 as well. I'm not 100% on that, but after doing some digging on the 11.1, it should work without a hitch. Especially with a '500 hp' program.
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Monday January 03, 2011 11:00 kep us informed on the new b/w performance after you had real time to test it. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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Star758 Posts: 3 Joined: Jan 2011

Monday January 03, 2011 21:56 Grandpa, I read this post twice and i dont see much talk about the 14L. I have an 05 Star with a 515 and getting around 4.6mpg and is a dog on the hills at 50k gross load. I had it dyno'd at 368hp at the wheels. The dealer says its normal and the fuel milage no one can promise. i have tried driving it very gentle to driving it like i stole it. The best i can see on paper is 4.8mpg and with the rising cost of fuel i would like to see something better if possible. When i talked with pitt power they said thier chip wouldnt do any better on fuel but would help it get over the hills. Am i to believe the 14L is a substandard engine compared to the 12.7L? Just about every truck on the road passes me even Swift and Schnieder... Your input would be greatly appreciated!!!

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday January 04, 2011 06:16 << << I have another question If you were going to build a everyday engine for the street and work it everyday for milage and performance what would you build?12.7 or 14L What would you use in the chosen engine? >> Stump, a friend of mine has a 14L with the 'hot' 14 liter program +15%, BW turbo. It runs very well and he is consistently in the low 7's nearly grossed all the time. After I give the BW turbo a try sometime during Christmas, I'm thinking about running the 14L program on my 12.7. >> Star, I can tell you for a fact that the truck I mentioned above in an earlier post was in the exact same boat you describe being in now. Sub 5 fuel mileage, and ran like a sick dog before upgrades. After upgrades, pushing 7 mpg's and will run with the best of them. Edited: Tuesday January 04, 2011 at 06:20 by olered

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday January 04, 2011 06:24 Grampa, or anyone else, have you used or have any thoughts on the Pittsburgh exhaust manifold that they sell for the Detroit? I have generally dismissed it as being a 'pretty' new stock piece, but after further looking, it seems they have these manufactured new. By that, I mean these are cast thicker so that the inside volume and flow can be greater after they are ported. They look to me to be extrude honed, but they won't comment.

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Tuesday January 04, 2011 06:41 << Grandpa, I read this post twice and i dont see much talk about the 14L. I have an 05 Star with a 515 and getting around 4.6mpg and is a dog on the hills at 50k gross load. I had it dyno'd at 368hp at the wheels. The dealer says its normal and the fuel milage no one can promise. i have tried driving it very gentle to driving it like i stole it. The best i can see on paper is 4.8mpg and with the rising cost of fuel i would like to see something better if possible. When i talked with pitt power they said thier chip wouldnt do any better on fuel but would help it get over the hills. Am i to believe the 14L is a substandard engine compared to the 12.7L? Just about every truck on the road passes me even Swift and Schnieder... Your input would be greatly appreciated!!! >> Is your system DDEC5? There are some guys programing those now. PDI http://www.pdidiesel.com/ These guys offer some DDEC5 programs. The guy that does mine dosn't mess with the DDEC5 only DDEC3 and 4 Are you running stock mufflers? The stock ones are very restrictive. A free'er flowing muffler will help the milage. If you have stack mufflers Donaldson M100463 are the same muffler pittsburg power sells. You can get them at about any truck parts place about $90.00 make sur they are the Donaldson Brand.

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palogger Posts: 29 Joined: Apr 2010

Tuesday January 04, 2011 18:46 star 758 i have a ddec 5 egr with a pdi stage 1 tune in 07 star i will tell you that i didnt see any better fuel economy after the programing but it will put a smile on your face when you push the pedal and the truck will go up a hill!!!! It is a night & day differance makes it fun to go to work and whip accerts up the hills even better when you tell them is a green motor !!! I will tell you that mine is a tri-axle logging truck with a self loader so i see alot of pto time this is why i didnt see a fuel gain.

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Star758 Posts: 3 Joined: Jan 2011

Tuesday January 04, 2011 23:20 *olered* Your friend is getting low 7's? I spoke to detriot (the factory) again today about the issues im having and they say the poor fuel milage is normal... If i even got 6.5mpg that would change my whole business. I currently spend 12 to 15k a month in fuel so you can appreciate where im coming from. Also i have changed the exhaust to the Pitt Power high flow (About $150 each) *stump* Yes it is a DDEC5 egr motor. The program alone will help the power issues but am i understanding this right, if i change the turbo and the program i will see the mpg and power? *palogger* Yes i also have wet lines on the truck but this evening i started out in philly pa topped off, and 46k gross and went straight up to Plattsburgh Ny with all the hills, and topped off again, on paper it 4.2mpg today and ofcourse a dog.

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Wednesday January 05, 2011 12:09 Star, email me. Just put Detroit S60 in the title so I'll see it. Yes, I can verify 7 mpg. Edited: Friday January 07, 2011 at 20:16 by olered
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ss60pd Posts: 10 Joined: Jan 2011

Wednesday January 05, 2011 17:36 Olred: I know grampa runs the pdi center section, that they offer and he seems to like it. Its a still a little pricy for me. I run stock manifold on my truck but sent it out to be ceramic coated. A new manifold from detroit ceramic coated, still came in about $100.oo less than pdi's center section. Boost wise I'll pull 40psi all day long. We'll still playing around w/ turbo's to find the best combo for our motors. So far we've narrowed it down to about 3 that might work the best. We're sick and tired of the Garrets and the warranty BS that Detroit makes you follow. 3 years ago you blow a turbo, take it back to the dealer and no questions asked, that isn't the case anymore. ------------------------- Series 60 Detroit Performance

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Wednesday January 05, 2011 21:21 Thanks for that info ss60pd. I'll check into the pdi center section. I know from years of building small block Fords/Chevys that putting a set of 1 3/4" headers on an untouched head will gain you nothing. Which is basically what I see from the PP manifold, even though a diesel is entirely different in combustion. I'm sure the jethot couldn't hurt. I've had several sets of headers coated that way, and drastically improved heat disapation. So far on a couple of short runs with the BW 702 turbo, I've gained 5 psi over what I had with the 8588 Garrett. Where I'd normally see 30, it is routinely at 35 now. On the work bench side by side, they are almost identical from the exterior with the exception of a few small casting details. Aside from a different compressor sound, and somehow quieting down my exhaust just a bit, it obviously spins faster. The motor seems to run more effortlessly than before. I don't notice any huge power increase, it just feels more solid. I think I'm ready for a little bump in power from the ecm now....

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Wednesday January 05, 2011 21:29 I wasn't impressed with the pdi center section. Slip joints leaked like crazy. Terry from up the road in Jackson said they are working on a whole new setup. Totally redesigned end pieces too. I hope to try one out. I have the egr motor gasket clamps on here, and they still leak.
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Thursday January 06, 2011 06:31 Hey lower, are the leaks visible as in signs of soot? I was wondering because my center section looks to be cracked right in the middle at the seam, but shows no sign of soot anywhere. Is it possible to actually be leaking without showing any traces?
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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009

Thursday January 06, 2011 06:46 Soot everywhere. The whole side of my head and compressor housing on the turbo was black. Black soot all over. They replaced it once, and the second time they said to use the gasket clamps. They DID say it the Detroit ends though. I think it is the two different cast metals. I do know the clamps helped a bunch, but still leaks a bit. This throws out enough black that it is a pretty good leak detector.

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catnlion Posts: 11 Joined: Jan 2011

Thursday January 06, 2011 12:02 Let me start with what I have and if you can please give me suggestions. There are only a couple concerns. I have an '06 Columbia with a late '05 build date DDEC V S60 455/515. The mileage on the truck is just getting ready to hit 500K. This year it's had a new head x2, egr valve x2, egr cooler, turbo, VPod, Delta P sensor, turbo speed sensor. All my injector codes are set to 55. One of the injectors has been replaced and I'm just getting to 100K miles since the head was replaced. I've added the PP muffler, FASS, and OPS1 bypass and I run full synthetic oil. A dyno was done on it 474K miles. With the fan on at 1521 RPM is showed 350 HP, 3670 torque, and 31.88 LBS boost. My last oil sample was clean at 70500 miles with 1.1% soot. Lately I've had a drop in fuel mileage. Last year I finished with 132,940 miles and a year long average of 6.66. This was a high 7 mpg truck and I have run it in the 8's. Parawon, UT to the Iowa 80 @8.76, around FL @ 8.75, IA to LA 8.00, TX to MN (bobtail) 9.97, NC to AL 8.17, AZ to CA 8.01. So you can see it's not just a one time deal in the flat lands. My typical speed is 60-62 with a governed speed of 71. Last year I didn't track it but the year before 80% of my loads had < 20K in the box. Last year my DH was 16.27%. What I'm wanting is fuel mileage. I don't need extra power very often. So I would like my old mileage back and some more. I had though about the ECM reprogramming. The problem is this is a lease purchase truck (no comments please) so what is done can't be detected. If you have any questions please ask, and thanks in advance for your help.

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009

Thursday January 06, 2011 19:16 There is Bully Dog, but I don't know off hand if they work on DDEC5. That is a fairly high soot level though. Mine will smoke BLACK for 120' on low RPM shifts, and my soot levels are usually .1 or .2%. Maybe the rings are getting worn out. Edit* 3670 torque? That can't be right, right? I have a friend that did 997 to the wheels with a CAT, and he was just barely at 3800 or so. Edited: Thursday January 06, 2011 at 19:19 by loweredd

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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Thursday January 06, 2011 19:46 catnlion contact me heavyhaulerss@aim.com I may have some advice for you. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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catnlion Posts: 11 Joined: Jan 2011	Thursday January 06, 2011 20:21 Sorry, that is LBS of torque, not foot LBS
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Sunday January 16, 2011 08:44 keep in mind when on a wheel dyno you will loose 12 to 15 percent HP to your drivetrain..on the exhaust manifold the only reason for the pdi center section is it is cast thicker in the middle, hopefully it will live longer..ceramic coating on the inside will keep the heat in.. remember heat helps drive the turbo..also keeping the heat in will make the manifold live longer because it will not absorb as much heat..as far as porting exhaust manifolds we ain't making that kind of HP yet.. soot levels can fool u..up the fuel into engine up the soot level..good quality oil will carry the soot out and show high soot in your oil analysis..if your soot is not carried out it becomes sludge..as far as 14s building 1 now slow process no time no extra money.changing ddec5 to ddec4 out of frame..on the egr ddec5 have had good luck with performance programing,move egr cycle to 1000-1100 rpm, reduces cycles at road speed..along with other changes increases HP and mileage..

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Sunday January 16, 2011 09:53 << as far as 14s building 1 now slow process no time no extra money. >> Thats alway's my problem too
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PETEROD Posts: 55 Joined: Mar 2008

Tuesday January 18, 2011 04:31 OK Any ones info will be greatly appreciated, i don,t mean to but in on this great discussion, this has been very interesting reading all that everyone has tried and done. i would like some input on what i am going to do. i have a 12.7 ddec III that I will inframe soon{my personal ride} just wanting some info on parts combo. 6067gk60 hauls heavy loads otr and regional. what cam number the R23525526? with R5235915 injectors? or R5237014? and a bw171702 turbo? now about those pistons, are aftermarket pistons going to be forged? or do you have to get these special? i suppose while its down I will send the ecm to get a new program, ok ive heard of ERICH AND LEON now which program will suit me? a 600 or 700 hp? I would hope that this ol 12.7 has piston coolers, its a reman from detroit built in 2002 a 430/470, the one I have in a other truck just had the pan down and it was built in 2003 by detroit and I saw those coolers. any help is great, this ddecIII is to be inframed because it has enough blowby to blow your hat off with only 400,000 miles and has alot if lead in the oil sample. have a good day everyone.

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Star758 Posts: 3 Joined: Jan 2011	Friday January 21, 2011 10:52 Anyone know who does ddec 5 program?
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Friday January 21, 2011 11:21 << Anyone know who does ddec 5 program? >> Star shoot me a email stumpman1@hotmail.com
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dragonflyt600 Posts: 11 Joined: Jun 2010

Friday January 21, 2011 13:47 I have not had good luck with 171702 first one bearing went out around 20,000 miles b/g said failer do to silicone? i think they are not for anything makeing over 35 psi of boost finaly got 2nd one from b/g and its doing same thing they do run cooler and they spool up quick, if u pull 50 psi they dont last, well at least not for me. my little 12.7 with 740 on ground did not like em.a mtu 825 hp cam numbers areE23533558 and from detroit it cost 724.84,wondering if any body out there had 06r number for a detroit mtu 825 hp its a 6062hko1 model?also watch pdi my rear is still soar i bought a ecm and what a joke,sent it to them 3 times had to finally show up in person and spend all day getting it right,forget calling them shawn never returns calls!and there stage 3 cam is a e23525526 industral cam with a 700hp rateing for 1700! im playing with a cummins 444 turbo right now seems to be working,will run up to 900 on hard pull and 650 on the flats. i recomend a good 5 tube radiator when start playing i did not at first and blew head gasket really sucked!also the mtu intake and exhaust valves are bigger and they work vary well in stock head with a little machine work,im running stock pistons holding up so far im looking for a block with piston coolers and then i will go with mtu pistons and injectors,i gotta say ive always had yellow motors and they dont hold together like the green ones and cost twices as much. Edited: Friday January 21, 2011 at 15:15 by dragonflyt600

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sixgunservices Posts: 1 Joined: Jan 2011	Saturday January 22, 2011 14:06 I am looking to get my ecm programmed, can anyone tell me the difference in Brad and Erich's service? I am leaning toward Erich right now because he called me back. Haven't heard from Brad after 2 messages, so maybe my question is already answered. Sounds to me like Erich stands by his work, does his service justify the 700 bucks more?
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Saturday January 22, 2011 16:11 Thanks for this info. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009	Saturday January 22, 2011 19:38 Well, Erich did mine and I am very happy with the programing and his service. He will tweak it till your happy or your money back. Always answered the phone or called back in a timely manner and also called me several times to make sure I was happy with it. ------------------------- Wayne Pontius
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catnlion Posts: 11 Joined: Jan 2011	Sunday January 23, 2011 04:20 How does one get in touch with Erich? Brad never returned my phone calls either. I really don't like to do business with someone that won't return calls or answer questions.
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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009	Sunday January 23, 2011 09:11 Contact him by email, seriousseries60performancediesels@hotmail.com It may take him a day or 2 to respond, he works like the rest of us. ------------------------- Wayne Pontius
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Sunday January 23, 2011 10:23 << Thanks for this info. >> I was refering to dragonfly, on the thanks for the info. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010

Sunday January 23, 2011 10:36 about midway in this post you will find lastgoodusername. he talked about using brads service. he met him in person. you can contact him here, or contact him on the truckers report. he can give you first hand experience with brad. I have not ever had my e.c.m. touched. I do not endorse, nor condemn any. I will say I have a thought recently, that if I were to have my e.c.m reprogrammed, I might buy one off e-bay. was looking & they have them for $250.00 for all detroits. I figured, I would buy 1 off e-bay & have that one sent to Erich or whoever & keep my original on my truck, so I wont have any down time. then I would keep my original in my side pocket as a spare, in case thje new one gave me a prob on the road. just an idea. if it is not a good one, chime in please. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS

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jsnap Posts: 53 Joined: Feb 2008

Sunday January 23, 2011 13:32 << How does one get in touch with Erich? Brad never returned my phone calls either. I really don't like to do business with someone that won't return calls or answer questions. >> You must part of the last Mohicans in this buss making alot of money if you want to use Erich..LOL ..You can do 10 ecm,s with Brad Wheeler for the price Erich is gonna want and the sad part about it is Erich dont even do them... Beleive me when I tell you be patient Brad is a PITA to get in touch with but it is well worth it he is an honest guy and does a great job for a more than fair price and in todays times that says alot.... When Erich gave me a price I almost fell of my chair..... Brad will make you happy.. The best way with him is send him a spare ECM and let him do his thing he is hard to get a hold of but keep trying your truck and your wallet will thank you...

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lastgoodusername Posts: 43 Joined: Sep 2010	Monday January 24, 2011 17:52 believe me you will be happy with Brad.he's busy like we all are. full time mechanic, home business plus this.
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Sunday February 06, 2011 06:25 peterod 23533204 cyl kits 15-1 compression forged..23532562 17-1 compression forged..i would use 15-1 kits... r23525526 700 hp cam ...r5237014 injestors... i'am still trying to come up with a turbo that will do the job without breaking the bank ..keep in mind the cheapest up front cost is not always the best bet.... as some people think... and here's the tricky part a programer that will custom program your ecm to your parts combo..i use erich at ss60pd...others say OMG he's gonna charge 2 arms 3 legs and your first born...have not used brad cannot say anything good or bad... just don't know...i just know where MY ecm gets custom programmed to my combo and MY needs...nothing personnal to anyone but I have not seen any better DYNO numbers since the 2003 dyno day at ALBAN cat...call it any way u see it but the numbers never lie...also keep in mind, it's your money,,,spend it any way u want...good luck...

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jsnap Posts: 53 Joined: Feb 2008

Monday February 07, 2011 06:45 << peterod 23533204 cyl kits 15-1 compression forged..23532562 17-1 compression forged..i would use 15-1 kits... r23525526 700 hp cam ...r5237014 injestors... i'am still trying to come up with a turbo that will do the job without breaking the bank ..keep in mind the cheapest up front cost is not always the best bet.... as some people think... and here's the tricky part a programer that will custom program your ecm to your parts combo..i use erich at ss60pd...others say OMG he's gonna charge 2 arms 3 legs and your first born...have not used brad cannot say anything good or bad... just don't know...i just know where MY ecm gets custom programmed to my combo and MY needs...nothing personnal to anyone but I have not seen any better DYNO numbers since the 2003 dyno day at ALBAN cat...call it any way u see it but the numbers never lie...also keep in mind, it's your money,,,spend it any way u want...good luck... >> Do you like to save money???? If i tell you that I could save you 75% on your programing expense and have the exact same programing but you have to give me 25% you still saving 50% would you do it? LOL And Im sure you know already what im going to tell you next but im guessing Erich is a friend and you don't pay what he asks of other people.... Shoosh ill rite it in code Teg noel ot od ruoy gnimargorp eh seod ti rof ...... Erich

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ss60pd Posts: 10 Joined: Jan 2011

Monday February 07, 2011 11:20 I only ever posted a few responses on this forum. And gotta tell ya I m a pretty popular guy. Don't send it to erich hell charge you 10 xs (well for record only about. 3xs as much) as much as brad or leon. Well I ll admit I do. But for the matter of public record who has the baddest 12.7 around. Oh that's right one of my customers . Its been a great read over the last several months and I gotta say there is not such thing as bad publicity. For all of those ney sayers I want to thank you we've been busy taking phone calls helping guys get the most out their 12.7s. Am I hurt by all the negativity. Nope. I just know that the certain few of you. (You know who are). Will never be able to experience the horsepower we can build. Keep up the good work guys your keeping ua busy. Ill be keeping a close eye on this thread its a good read. Thanks ------------------------- Series 60 Detroit Performance

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Monday February 07, 2011 18:17 Hey Wizard, If you can give me the same programming the same horsepower & the same mileage, where are you're records? Mine are a matter of public record! If you're such a genius, how do you know I'm not Leon, Brad, Erich, the Wizard of OZ or maybe even God...on the other hand how do you know they aren't all the same person? How do you know they aren't program names...maybe there ain't no people? Say what you want I've told you repeatedly spend your money any way you want...I spent mine. I hold 2 National records, 4 State Championships and have numerous truck pull wins on the ATPA & NTPA Circuits & I'm the idiot wasting my money. I CAN'T STRESS ENOUGH THE FACT THAT THIS IS WHAT I DID, I ASK NO ONE ELSE TO DO THE SAME OR SPEND ANY MONEY ON ANYTHING I SUGGEST. Just doing my best to answer questions & give out part numbers I have run and had good luck with. Ain't no tip toe, tip toe here!! Can't wait to here from you genius.

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Monday February 07, 2011 21:42 Nice. A real pi$$ing match!! Why are some here getting so irate? You'd think this is the ole Caterpillar bash o' thon... I'm gonna top that hill way before you because my wheel dyno numbers are outta sight! Tiptoe, tiptoe.
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ss60pd Posts: 10 Joined: Jan 2011

Tuesday February 08, 2011 04:58 It all goes back to who the real key players are. What's amazing is . Most of you have called me at one time or another asking how can I build a cat thumpin detroit. And in response I've told you in order how to achieve it .. then not even spending a dime you bitch that I charge to much. And what do you got? Nothin cause you think your so much smarter. Heck you might be. But all I know is. I haven't met him. Like I said ealier keep dragging my name in the mud. I enjoy it. . The phone keeps ringing. And the funny part about it is. I don't even have to say a word. There are enough guys out there who know who we are and what do. Keep up the good work ------------------------- Series 60 Detroit Performance

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009

Tuesday February 08, 2011 06:31 I will know in a week or so when I dyno again what my $325 tune will do. I know on a stock 430 I got 504 to the wheels. I have done a lot of upgrading since then, and depending on what turbo I have hanging on it this time, I am going to guess high 8's. I am also going to guess that for 3x the money, you could give me 3x the power increase? Heck, I could send it back again and get it turned higher, and STILL have enough money left over to do it again! I'm not saying you don't do a good job, or doubting your work. I don't think anyone here is. But, I don't think your phone is ringing as much as you say it is. Your presence would say otherwise to me. I think you're in here for damage control.

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday February 08, 2011 08:44 As far as dragging your name through the mud, I think only one poster here has done that. I did talk to you several times a couple of years ago and I really enjoyed talking with you learning from what you and grampa have done. Trailblazed would be most fitting. As a matter of fact, seeing the cat guys faces when those numbers were pulled off must have been worth it all. I don't see any problem with spending whatever makes a person happy in the end. Heck, just take a look at PP and their $2500 'boxes'. We all know who makes that happen behind the scenes. I do believe the people paying attention here are a particularly small, but albeit 'out of the box' group. So for the sake of learning, lets move onto discussing what will benefit everyone here: building an S60 with nice amounts of power in the most efficient way.

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jsnap Posts: 53 Joined: Feb 2008

Tuesday February 08, 2011 12:12 << I will know in a week or so when I dyno again what my $325 tune will do. I know on a stock 430 I got 504 to the wheels. I have done a lot of upgrading since then, and depending on what turbo I have hanging on it this time, I am going to guess high 8's. I am also going to guess that for 3x the money, you could give me 3x the power increase? Heck, I could send it back again and get it turned higher, and STILL have enough money left over to do it again! I'm not saying you don't do a good job, or doubting your work. I don't think anyone here is. But, I don't think your phone is ringing as much as you say it is. Your presence would say otherwise to me. I think you're in here for damage control. >> You hit the nail rite on the head his phone is dead no more ringing of the hook...From this tread other programmers Like Brad Wheeler and Leon are now out in the open and his days of high priced programs are over and he knows it soon he will realize and his prices will drop so like you said its time for DAMAGE CONTROL to try to salvage what little he has left... But in his defense after paying Leon to do the programming he has to make something so what if its 3 times what he paid Leon this is America land of opportunity.. But for the Life of me i don't understand why grandpas got his bloomers all bunched over this ??????? Is Erich his son????? or do they split the profits from Leons Work I dunno

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Tuesday February 08, 2011 14:26 I. wish, some. of u's wuld lurn? how. to spell. and. punctuate:;"'#@!?? Sorry, I couldn't resist...
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jsnap Posts: 53 Joined: Feb 2008	Tuesday February 08, 2011 15:54 << I. wish, some. of u's wuld lurn? how. to spell. and. punctuate:;"'#@!?? Sorry, I couldn't resist... >> Never to late for a career change you should be a teacher
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday February 08, 2011 16:50 << << I. wish, some. of u's wuld lurn? how. to spell. and. punctuate:;"'#@!?? Sorry, I couldn't resist... >> Never to late for a career change you should be a teacher >> No thanks. Well wait a minute, you might be onto something... Bankers hours, snow days, spring break, 3 month summer break, Christmas break, state insurance, retirement, AND no dealing with brokers... Why the hell didn't I become a teacher!?

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JoeZ Posts: 938 Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday February 08, 2011 17:07 Ladies, ladies......settle down now.....I'm sure there are lots of unknown guys out there doing a bang up job on performance so no need to argue over who is best or cheapest. I send my customers to a little unknown shop here in Florida run by a guy that worked for me for over 15 years and he keeps a low profile. He likes it that way. He never did one bit of advertising and he is constantly busy. We were building trucks for an out of state company that normally run 90 feet long and the empty unit weighs 70 thousand and gross 288,000 so they need major power.......probably more than most you guys are used to.....but they pay with shortened engine life.....so everything has it's price. I'll be glad when Thursday gets here..... ------------------------- One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left. 44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Wednesday February 09, 2011 07:37 jsnap..GOD i hope your not the same jsnap trying to sell a over priced pitts power box on this site,shame,shame,can't play both sides of the fence now...can't help but wonder ...why would anyone buy a $3000 box when u can get a program so much cheaper...and yes i can build 3 times the power...thanks for all the entertainment...good luck with your project..
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jsnap Posts: 53 Joined: Feb 2008

Wednesday February 09, 2011 18:45 << jsnap..GOD i hope your not the same jsnap trying to sell a over priced pitts power box on this site,shame,shame,can't play both sides of the fence now...can't help but wonder ...why would anyone buy a $3000 box when u can get a program so much cheaper...and yes i can build 3 times the power...thanks for all the entertainment...good luck with your project.. >> Well that would be one hell of a coincidence if I weren't the same now wouldn't it aint you the little observant one.. But to answer your question the box came with the truck and after Honest hard working and respecting of hard working truckers Brad the honest man Wheeler did my program for a tenth of what some of your buddies want $250.00 I dont need it anymore. Although I did use it with Honest Brad Wheeler of Thomaston GA,s Program its to much for me hence the sale...

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Saturday February 26, 2011 17:00 sorry i didn't answer anyone..seems like someone (no names) that does'nt like my comments or answers,contacted this site and told them i was selling goods and services..so the thread and me were removed..i contacted the site and asked them to read the thread..they did, and reinstated the thread and me..but found others selling things illegally on diesel talk..imagine that..yup i guess the jig is up..

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Saturday February 26, 2011 17:27 jsnap.. no doubt about it you were right ,i was wrong..erich has been cheating his customers,,i have never been able to talk to his voice mail for weeks on end..i never get pretty flashing lights in my dash, i just read the boost gauge..i've never had a rough,RUMP RUMP idle..never had a midrange miss..never had high pyro,readings..never had to go to the local junk yard to retreave used resisters and sensors...did'nt have to cut my factory wiring harness open to install said parts.. just plug and play good performance,and mileage ecm programed for my combination of parts and needs...but after reading alot of different threads i now know i have been cheated out of my extra's...i'am going to call erich right now and demand my extra's..thank u very much for bringing this to my attention......................................

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Sunday February 27, 2011 06:16 ..i contacted the site and asked them to read the thread..they did, and reinstated the thread and me..but found others selling things illegally on diesel talk..imagine that..yup i guess the jig is up.. >> Grampa thanks for what you did getting the thread reinstated. I for one appreciate your knowledge and experience and look forward to your advice. We all want good running engines no matter who does what.I, like you, have never had a ECM program issue No lights .No funky sensors none of that just a real good running truck.Thats what it's all about a REAL GOOD RUNNIG TRUCK thats it bottom line.So lets get back ON TOPIC and move forward. stump

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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009	Sunday February 27, 2011 06:22 Ditto again Stump. Thanks Grampa. ------------------------- Wayne Pontius
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littlejohn Posts: 89 Joined: Feb 2011	Sunday February 27, 2011 10:43 i new here but i do agree
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PETEROD Posts: 55 Joined: Mar 2008	Monday February 28, 2011 21:33 GRAMPA , i felt so lost and did not where to go, i looked this thread up one nite and it was gone, i thought , what do i do now?, sure glad your back and this whole thread is restored. everybody please remember weve all got opinions, some should be said and some are to be kept, but anyway glad everyones back.
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Tuesday March 01, 2011 17:04 Welcome back! Hopefully the kiddos stay off their old mans computer and let this thread stay intelligent...
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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Tuesday March 01, 2011 17:07 Lower, did you ever get around to dynoing your truck again?
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dragonflyt600 Posts: 11 Joined: Jun 2010	Friday March 04, 2011 19:08 always a RAT in the wood pile thats f_k up he probly wishes he could get his balls out of his wifes purse and build a motor !
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Saturday March 05, 2011 06:33 Alright lets stay on topic,water under the bridge.
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JoeZ Posts: 938 Joined: Dec 2008	Saturday March 05, 2011 07:48 Seems like it gets a bit immature at times.... ------------------------- One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left. 44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.
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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Tuesday March 08, 2011 13:08 << Lower, did you ever get around to dynoing your truck again? >> Not yet. I want to put a few more thousand miles on it, and make sure everything is seated good. Maybe mid April. 504 to the wheels on a stock 98 430 engine with just a cheap tune. It will still be the same tune when I go back, too.
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phantom309 Posts: 14 Joined: Feb 2009

Sunday March 20, 2011 15:03 Great info here, hate to lose it ,. its all about the mean green machines,.. the 15:1 kits,. the 526 cam,.7014 injectors, any idea's yet for this combo's turbo? i'm going for a fun practical motor, not necessarily all out competition type power,.,. What torque can be expected from this combo? Will it need a stronger clutch? I haul heavy with my trucks,. always grossing 130,00lbs+ Thanks Nick ------------------------- If i could have what i want,. i wouldn't want what i have.

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Sunday August 28, 2011 12:21 BW171702 is a good all around turbo priced right..have now tried BW 177287 with modifed cold side housing after running garret 24100,,spools up much quicker and 10 lbs more boost,,good cold morning air 55 lbs of boost,,mileage up .2 mpg..very content with new turbo at this time..but as usual time will tell..having thoughts of going to ZMAX on oct. 7&8 to see where we are at, at this time,should know in a week or two..

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Sunday August 28, 2011 13:56 Grampa if you come to Charlotte to ZMax I am about 13 miles to the track and have a extra guest room if you need it.
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phantom309 Posts: 14 Joined: Feb 2009	Sunday August 28, 2011 15:31 Nick >> ------------------------- If i could have what i want,. i wouldn't want what i have. Edited: Sunday August 28, 2011 at 15:39 by phantom309
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phantom309 Posts: 14 Joined: Feb 2009	Sunday August 28, 2011 15:38 thanks for the reply grampa, i looked for the 177287 only came up with 177289,.. the 171701, and 171702, are priced the same,. but what are their differences,.? when you mention modified cold side,. How? Nick ------------------------- If i could have what i want,. i wouldn't want what i have.
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Monday August 29, 2011 05:20 BW 177287 comes with a hose connector out of the cold side,,had to modify to V band clamp to make bolt on application..also had to drill return pipe bolt holes to recieve 3/8 bolts..can purchase from erich at SS60PD ready to bolt on if you want 570-412-0754,,your call,, good luck hope this has helped
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Monday August 29, 2011 05:24 thank you stump i will let you know,,hopefully all will go well and i will make it and get to meet you, again thank you,,
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phantom309 Posts: 14 Joined: Feb 2009	Saturday December 10, 2011 16:14 It,s been quite a while since this thread,. Any interesting news or developments? I managed to snag a 4912 camshaft yesterday, it was at an unclaimed freight sale,. mine for $100.00!! now to find some injectors,. 4795's?? or 7014.s was the last thing i remember,. Nick ------------------------- If i could have what i want,. i wouldn't want what i have.
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egantrucking Posts: 387 Joined: Dec 2007

Saturday December 10, 2011 22:49 When I hit a hard pull with my all stock Detroit, I throttle back and drop an extra gear instead of pushing it against the governor. And when I take off empty at a red light, I use progressive shifting and accelerate at the speed of the loaded trucks next to me. I drive like I have an uncooked egg between my shoe and the accelerator peddle. Do you think my turbo is big enough? ------------------------- michael egan

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egantrucking Posts: 387 Joined: Dec 2007	Saturday December 10, 2011 22:50 senior citizens give me the bird for getting in their way ------------------------- michael egan
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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Sunday December 18, 2011 20:50 << When I hit a hard pull with my all stock Detroit, I throttle back and drop an extra gear instead of pushing it against the governor. And when I take off empty at a red light, I use progressive shifting and accelerate at the speed of the loaded trucks next to me. I drive like I have an uncooked egg between my shoe and the accelerator peddle. Do you think my turbo is big enough? >> Driving like that i hope you get 8 or 9 mpg! I'd bet you could take your turbo off and run the intake plumbing into the cab and blow all the air your engine needs! Be sure you have a wastegate, you dont want to get to much air pressure in to the engine. Just saying. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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egantrucking Posts: 387 Joined: Dec 2007	Monday December 19, 2011 06:32 I've had my own authority for about 15 years. And actually I do have a number of IFTA quarters that AVERAGE 8+ MPG.....ALL STOCK SET UP! And I have NEVER been late for an appointment because my truck was too slow or because it broke down. But to each their own! RON PAUL 2012! ------------------------- michael egan
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egantrucking Posts: 387 Joined: Dec 2007	Monday December 19, 2011 06:38 and maybe you are not understanding....it is not the air pressure that can lead to engine failure, it is the amount of oxygen that is forced into the combustion chambers. Just saying.... ------------------------- michael egan
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phantom309 Posts: 14 Joined: Feb 2009

Monday December 19, 2011 08:20 So why are you posting in this thread? obviously you don't have much knowledge of the inner workings of a detroit diesel,. and this thread is for guys who are interested in more power from their motors,.seems you are looking to be a smart ass and start an argument,. good luck to you on your travels, keep your glass belt buckle well polished too, so you will have no trouble seeing where you,re going,. Nick ------------------------- If i could have what i want,. i wouldn't want what i have.

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egantrucking Posts: 387 Joined: Dec 2007	Monday December 19, 2011 09:07 Wow! A lot of guys have PMS on here! Sorry! No problem! I will not post on your message board anymore. I did not know I needed your permission. Please try to forgive me for offering my OPINION. I did not know only you were allowed to advise people on what is best for them. Ron Paul 2012! ------------------------- michael egan
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egantrucking Posts: 387 Joined: Dec 2007	Monday December 19, 2011 09:16 For a bunch of truck drivers, you guys sure get your feelings hurt easy! Maybe I am starting to understand why you make such a strong effort racing to the top of the hill! Take it easy... just messing with you...I got an idea, you do what you want, and let me do what I want and we can be friends.... ------------------------- michael egan
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Monday December 19, 2011 09:20 BOYS,BOYS,BOYS,,haven't we been here already,,this is why we own our trucks,we can modify them to our own needs,or not,,,there is no one size fits all,,some are happy with what they have,others are not,,to each there own,whatever makes your day go by easier for you ,do it.....merry christmas...and hopefully a better NEW YEAR..GRAMPA
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egantrucking Posts: 387 Joined: Dec 2007	Monday December 19, 2011 13:47 If I won the lottery, I would buy the biggest most powerful engine money could buy, and then I would pass all you guys in the hills just because I could. Merry Christmas grampa! ------------------------- michael egan
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Monday December 19, 2011 16:36 << If I won the lottery, I would buy the biggest most powerful engine money could buy, and then I would pass all you guys in the hills just because I could. Merry Christmas grampa! >> . We do that now,Just cause we can!
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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Monday December 19, 2011 20:14 << I've had my own authority for about 15 years. And actually I do have a number of IFTA quarters that AVERAGE 8+ MPG.....ALL STOCK SET UP! And I have NEVER been late for an appointment because my truck was too slow or because it broke down. But to each their own! RON PAUL 2012! >> That makes two of us. But my mileage has never changed, its always been 5.5 - 5.8 depending on load,wind,idleing. on my 12.7l and 14.0l. I do drive hard though. And flatbed,oversize some. ------------------------- truckin for fun! Edited: Monday December 19, 2011 at 20:18 by junkyardkid

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Monday December 19, 2011 20:24 << For a bunch of truck drivers, you guys sure get your feelings hurt easy! Maybe I am starting to understand why you make such a strong effort racing to the top of the hill! Take it easy... just messing with you...I got an idea, you do what you want, and let me do what I want and we can be friends.... >> I bet you sit at the counter with the REAL steering wheel hold.. I meen truck drivers. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Monday December 19, 2011 20:45 << and maybe you are not understanding....it is not the air pressure that can lead to engine failure, it is the amount of oxygen that is forced into the combustion chambers. Just saying.... >> So, are you saying that if you ran 100lbs of boost and were way out of the efficiency of the compressor wheel that you'd have less chance of engine failure than if you made 60lbs of boost at peak efficiency ? And what engine failure specifically did you have in mind? Head gasket, valves floating, or something else all together? Does that take into account the effects of intercooling on the oxygen? Does the CFM of the turbo effect the amount of oxygen? (just using your terminology) Are you begining to understande yet? Just asking... ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Monday December 19, 2011 20:52 Here I thought someone was going to have some worthwhile posts, and all it has been is crap. Thanks. I think I had 5.76 last quarter. I had to have the back section of the transmission rebuilt recently. 79700 across Wyoming in 13th at 72. Never had a drop of trouble before with no trans temp gauge, but maybe it's time for one.
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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Monday December 19, 2011 20:55 << BOYS,BOYS,BOYS,,haven't we been here already,,this is why we own our trucks,we can modify them to our own needs,or not,,,there is no one size fits all,,some are happy with what they have,others are not,,to each there own,whatever makes your day go by easier for you ,do it.....merry christmas...and hopefully a better NEW YEAR..GRAMPA >> Sorry grampa, this is bleed over from another thread. I enjoy the info that you post and have some similar ideas, just have'nt tried 'em all yet. Going to be shooting for 1000 HP in 2012. its encouraging reading about your success. hope to meet you someday, maybe in a little friendly competition. And just so everyone is clear I'm not calling you out! much respect! ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Monday December 19, 2011 20:59 << Here I thought someone was going to have some worthwhile posts, and all it has been is crap. Thanks. I think I had 5.76 last quarter. I had to have the back section of the transmission rebuilt recently. 79700 across Wyoming in 13th at 72. Never had a drop of trouble before with no trans temp gauge, but maybe it's time for one. >> Sorry low, like i said bleed over from another thread. But, he started it! Uh, wait, maybe I did. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011	Monday December 19, 2011 21:03 If i may be so bold I do have a question, how much boost will the head gasket hold? Any other boost related trouble? ------------------------- truckin for fun!
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Tuesday December 20, 2011 07:33 HP is HP everybody shows up a zero ,we all bust balls,have fun and one leaves a hero the rest of us still a zero..no great loss had a lot of fun GOOD DAY in my book..and let me tell you i have been a zero alot more than a hero..but keep in mind if you never enter you never win..if you never lose you will never enjoy the win..i have run 85 lbs of boost in play mode..60 lbs normal everyday use,I know someone who uses twin turbos with 100 lbs of boost..but keep in mind we also have .005 liner protrussion to crush the head gasket tighter..amount of boost needed is directly related to amount of fuel needed to get needed end result..remember none of us know everything,never will..we each know what we have done and the end result,sometimes good, sometimes not so much..not being a college boy,only have school of hard knocks education.sometimes this has been a good thing because nobody taught me it could'nt be done..sometimes expensive...

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JoeZ Posts: 938 Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday December 20, 2011 10:26 Like grampa said.....it helps having more rather than less liner protrusion.....however, I have seen liners with .006 liner protrusion snap head bolts over long periods of hard running. I guess it all boils down to how hard you run for how long. We took an old head, capped off an intake port and applied air pressure and the intake valve started leaking just above 40 psi....not sure what that all means at running speeds... ------------------------- One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left. 44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.

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phantom309 Posts: 14 Joined: Feb 2009

Tuesday December 20, 2011 13:54 << Like grampa said.....it helps having more rather than less liner protrusion.....however, I have seen liners with .006 liner protrusion snap head bolts over long periods of hard running. I guess it all boils down to how hard you run for how long. We took an old head, capped off an intake port and applied air pressure and the intake valve started leaking just above 40 psi....not sure what that all means at running speeds... >> ------------------------- If i could have what i want,. i wouldn't want what i have.

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phantom309 Posts: 14 Joined: Feb 2009

Tuesday December 20, 2011 14:01 << << Like grampa said.....it helps having more rather than less liner protrusion.....however, I have seen liners with .006 liner protrusion snap head bolts over long periods of hard running. I guess it all boils down to how hard you run for how long. We took an old head, capped off an intake port and applied air pressure and the intake valve started leaking just above 40 psi....not sure what that all means at running speeds... >> >> sorry i hit send before i wrote what i wanted,. the intake leaking would only interfere with the last bit of the exhaust stroke, the first part of the exhaust cycle would probably help the spring keeping the intake valve closed, i,d wonder how much reversion would be added to the intake stroke,. obviously not enough to worry about? compression and power strokes would each hold the valve tighter. What would concern me is valve float at higher rpm,.causing valvetrain instability and damage from maybe a pushrod getting loose,,. Nick ------------------------- If i could have what i want,. i wouldn't want what i have.

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JoeZ Posts: 938 Joined: Dec 2008

Tuesday December 20, 2011 15:16 At high RPM it would be down to fractions of a second and if your intake pressure was at...say 50 psi, the air in the cylinder would also be 50 psi until the compression stroke when it would raise. If the pressure in the cylinder on the exhaust stroke was less, then maybe it would force some air past the intake valve. The reason we even tried it was because we had a guy that ran high boost pressures at times and he said when he really pulled it down at 1400 to 1500 RPM, he thought he heard valve clatter. ------------------------- One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left. 44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Tuesday December 20, 2011 19:41 << HP is HP everybody shows up a zero ,we all bust balls,have fun and one leaves a hero the rest of us still a zero..no great loss had a lot of fun GOOD DAY in my book..and let me tell you i have been a zero alot more than a hero..but keep in mind if you never enter you never win..if you never lose you will never enjoy the win..i have run 85 lbs of boost in play mode..60 lbs normal everyday use,I know someone who uses twin turbos with 100 lbs of boost..but keep in mind we also have .005 liner protrussion to crush the head gasket tighter..amount of boost needed is directly related to amount of fuel needed to get needed end result..remember none of us know everything,never will..we each know what we have done and the end result,sometimes good, sometimes not so much..not being a college boy,only have school of hard knocks education.sometimes this has been a good thing because nobody taught me it could'nt be done..sometimes expensive... >> Thats interesting you brought up liner protrusion, Im heading to house to rebuild my ddec 4 14l. Going to do counter bores and was planning on .005 protrusion. Thanks for comment on .006 joez. Feels good that i was in the ball park. Been a zero plenty, but was a hero recently. I'm enrolled at hard knocks university currentlly! Blowwed up lots of stuff on 5.9's. I had a hard ass Marine tell tell me we could do anything all it takes is time and money, I believed him! He built a 36 foot steel hull sailboat from his wheel chair, among other incredible accomplishments! I call him Sir or Dad! OORAH! ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Tuesday December 20, 2011 19:53 << << << Like grampa said.....it helps having more rather than less liner protrusion.....however, I have seen liners with .006 liner protrusion snap head bolts over long periods of hard running. I guess it all boils down to how hard you run for how long. We took an old head, capped off an intake port and applied air pressure and the intake valve started leaking just above 40 psi....not sure what that all means at running speeds... >> >> sorry i hit send before i wrote what i wanted,. the intake leaking would only interfere with the last bit of the exhaust stroke, the first part of the exhaust cycle would probably help the spring keeping the intake valve closed, i,d wonder how much reversion would be added to the intake stroke,. obviously not enough to worry about? compression and power strokes would each hold the valve tighter. What would concern me is valve float at higher rpm,.causing valvetrain instability and damage from maybe a pushrod getting loose,,. Nick >> when you send post early goto the post and hit edit and you can continue with same post. Then hit edit post where reply to thread would be and you got it fixed. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Tuesday December 20, 2011 20:03 << At high RPM it would be down to fractions of a second and if your intake pressure was at...say 50 psi, the air in the cylinder would also be 50 psi until the compression stroke when it would raise. If the pressure in the cylinder on the exhaust stroke was less, then maybe it would force some air past the intake valve. The reason we even tried it was because we had a guy that ran high boost pressures at times and he said when he really pulled it down at 1400 to 1500 RPM, he thought he heard valve clatter. >> I dont pull that low often but im gonna have to turn down the radio and listen. valve train control is important and i dont want pistons making out with my valves so im gonna stiffen the springs and do some basic head work. I think I read somewhere that marine valves were larger does any one know? If they are, does anyone have part numbers? ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Wednesday December 21, 2011 03:10 Junk I didn't see any difference in valves just one part number it was the same as 14l also.the14l does not show a different head either .the different geartrain to the compact is what I found researching early and later engines.
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Wednesday December 21, 2011 18:53 keep in mind there are no pushtubes,cam followers,or valve bridges,for the valve springs to return. just rockers..i can honestly say all i ever ran where stock parts..in play mode 82 lbs of boost, as much as 4000 rpm no issues,,maybe just dumb luck,,only problem was stock fuel pump would only keep up to 3750 rpm,,cut back to 3500 rpm no more issues,,street ecm set at 2400 just in case,,normally shift at 1800 any more just not needed for every day use..as for mileage 5.2 mpg is about it..but i run 2 lanes in upstate NY every day pulling dump bucket always over 100,000 lbs..70 miles one way thru little townes takes 2 hrs to get there up and down the hills..3 rounds a day =about 428 miles = about 82 to 84 gallons..most trucks on job average 120 to 135 gallons a day..i would like to see better but..otr average 5.8... flatbed otr 6.8 to 7 mpg but load on deck no air drag ... weight and drag make big difference..

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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009

Wednesday December 21, 2011 19:29 Stump or Grampa, I have a question. Erich had my fuel turned up 15% overstock, I have 5575 injectors. Could the same thing be achieved by installing injectors that flow more? Or in other words, does a longer duration of injection compare to the flow of a "larger" injector? That would be assuming that I understand 15% overstock is allowing the duration of injection to be longer. And another thought, assuming this is true, would the performance of the combustion process be different if you had the same amount of fuel injected over a longer period of time compared to the same amount over a shorter period of time? Can you help me understand this? ------------------------- Wayne Pontius

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phantom309 Posts: 14 Joined: Feb 2009

Wednesday December 21, 2011 21:02 the longer you can make the introduction of the fuel, the better, pouring fuel onto an already burning fire makes better heat, some of todays newer engines are actually injecting fuel up to 6 different times during the combustion, and all 6 events can be varied with an electronic injector,. Nick ------------------------- If i could have what i want,. i wouldn't want what i have. Edited: Wednesday December 21, 2011 at 21:10 by phantom309

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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009	Thursday December 22, 2011 06:19 That's interesting, probably get a more complete burn too. thanks for the reply. ------------------------- Wayne Pontius
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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Thursday December 22, 2011 11:22 I have thought about putting my program back to the regular 485 program with these injectors and camshaft. I was told that a guy with some smaller marine parts was running a 15% UNDER program. Mine gets fairly hot and quickly if not watched. The poor Michigan Turbo is probably getting worn, and not as efficient anymore either.
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Thursday December 22, 2011 12:34 << Stump or Grampa, I have a question. Erich had my fuel turned up 15% overstock, I have 5575 injectors. Could the same thing be achieved by installing injectors that flow more? Or in other words, does a longer duration of injection compare to the flow of a "larger" injector? That would be assuming that I understand 15% overstock is allowing the duration of injection to be longer. And another thought, assuming this is true, would the performance of the combustion process be different if you had the same amount of fuel injected over a longer period of time compared to the same amount over a shorter period of time? Can you help me understand this? >> You will not get a increase just changing the injectors and running the stock program .It all has to work as a team program injectors cam turbo etc.Kind of look at it like If the EPA would let them and the customer wanted it and detroit had no liability if it melted down, this is probably what you would have>

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Thursday December 22, 2011 13:32 Thanks for the info stump that helps alot! Thanks to grampa too, thats alot of valuable info. And hard earned no doubt! I will put it to good use! My main concern was floating valves with boost, trying to make sure I get a good valave seal. My dad always says "when in doubt build it stought" Maybe I'll shim to start with. What are ya'lls thoughts on compression ratio, A friend and I built a 5.9 cummins with lower compression and were not convinced of any benefits. WE felt we left some torque on the table, which might not be bad in this application. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Thursday December 22, 2011 13:43 << I have thought about putting my program back to the regular 485 program with these injectors and camshaft. I was told that a guy with some smaller marine parts was running a 15% UNDER program. Mine gets fairly hot and quickly if not watched. The poor Michigan Turbo is probably getting worn, and not as efficient anymore either. >> what are egt's, measured before or after turbo? what rpm's you runnin when it gets hot? do you know the cfm or lbs/min of your turbo? What turbo and exhaust housing? ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009

Thursday December 22, 2011 14:25 I measure after the Turbo, and will only let it get to 1050 or so anymore. RPM doesn't matter. I can get it there anywhere from 1300-1900. It just depends how far I have the throttle pushed. It will do it in the lower RPM much easier, because it is just dumping fuel in, and not using the turbo. I don't remember the numbers on the turbo off the top of my head. Michigan doesn't really give specs on their stuff. It is a Stage 5, and the exhaust housing is a 1.45 a/r.

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Thursday December 22, 2011 15:06 << I measure after the Turbo, and will only let it get to 1050 or so anymore. RPM doesn't matter. I can get it there anywhere from 1300-1900. It just depends how far I have the throttle pushed. It will do it in the lower RPM much easier, because it is just dumping fuel in, and not using the turbo. I don't remember the numbers on the turbo off the top of my head. Michigan doesn't really give specs on their stuff. It is a Stage 5, and the exhaust housing is a 1.45 a/r. >> I'm not very familiar with what people are selling so I'll just speak in general. I forgot to ask how much boost. I was thinking a bigger compressor might help but if your not running over 1900 rpm you might benefit from a tighter ex housing. a little more boost can cool your egt's as long as you keep your drive pressure under your boost pressure. I know the question was towards changing your setup but you may be ok just need to tweek your combonation. Dito what stump said, parts without tune yield minimal results. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Thursday December 22, 2011 18:08 1 more time,,combination,combination,combination,,keep in mind some programers only turn up fuel,,a good programmer writes a new program that keeps evolving with time,experience ,and good feedback..you have know idea how many program changes i've tried, probably 100's..at least 10 different injectors,,2 cams,12 to 15 turbors,,doesn't sound like much but now multiply those numbers for possible combinations,gets a little more confusing doesn't it..not much of anything stays more than 3 to 6 months..the search never ends..if you have high EGT to much fuel,,not enough air ,,pretty simple how much intake pressure,,how much exhaust pressure.yes exhaust pressure before turbo,,you would like about 10 psi more intake than exhaust..much more than this you will have turbo thrust washer problems..never higher exhaust..

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011	Thursday December 22, 2011 21:56 Nice, 12 to 15 turbos, I've tried five, but one was a hybrid holset just to try an idea. I learned alot from it but onto bigger and better. Going to build a garret next gt5088 ------------------------- truckin for fun!
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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009

Friday December 23, 2011 02:19 Are there any thoughts on the charge air cooler? Couple months ago, I replaced my OEM CAC with one designed by a local friend who builds them for pulling/racing trucks as well. My understanding is some he personally builds and some are built by another company to his specs. It has open extruded square/rectangle tubes welded to the tanks. By open, I mean that they don't have that foil material inside them. He assured me I would see at least .5 mpg gain, cooler intake temps. There are so many variables in my operation that I can't say for sure if I am realizing the .5mpg gain or not, but I do believe my spool up is not as quick as before. So my thinking is, the air is getting to the head with less restriction, allowing the 171702 to spin more freely, less initial intake pressure to build up against? Any thoughts or input on this? One draw back to this design I can see is in the event of a turbo blowing apart, you may get more pieces into the engine that otherwise would be filtered out by the OEM CAC. Hopefully those days are over as I no longer use the Garrett! And maybe another topic, do you guys use turbo blankets or wrap the manifold and pipe? ------------------------- Wayne Pontius

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Friday December 23, 2011 11:13 << Are there any thoughts on the charge air cooler? Couple months ago, I replaced my OEM CAC with one designed by a local friend who builds them for pulling/racing trucks as well. My understanding is some he personally builds and some are built by another company to his specs. It has open extruded square/rectangle tubes welded to the tanks. By open, I mean that they don't have that foil material inside them. He assured me I would see at least .5 mpg gain, cooler intake temps. There are so many variables in my operation that I can't say for sure if I am realizing the .5mpg gain or not, but I do believe my spool up is not as quick as before. So my thinking is, the air is getting to the head with less restriction, allowing the 171702 to spin more freely, less initial intake pressure to build up against? Any thoughts or input on this? One draw back to this design I can see is in the event of a turbo blowing apart, you may get more pieces into the engine that otherwise would be filtered out by the OEM CAC. Hopefully those days are over as I no longer use the Garrett! I haven'nt done alot with CAC but i've read and discussed some, so I will share that for what its worth. Think of the foil (I would call 'em fins) like a radiator. Without the fins heat has less area to transfer to and the radiator would be less effcient. CAC's are rated in pressure drop and efficiency, the pressure drop is due ,in part, to the fins but is replaced by gains in cooler denser air. MAYBE, the slow spool is really a loss of power due to hotter air in the intake. And I'm with you on fins filtering shrapnel. And maybe another topic, do you guys use turbo blankets or wrap the manifold and pipe? >> I plan on wrapping exhaust asap. The theory being keep the heat in so thermal expansion of gases can drive the turbo. No personal experiance yet. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Friday December 23, 2011 17:42 i would guess by slower spool up you mean longer to build intake pressure..that would tell me if all you did was change cac that the new one is restricting air flow as your pressure gauge is at the intake manifold..as for blankets on exhaust and turbos,heat helps drive the turbo but in my experience the cost is way to high for the end result..lots of things help HP and MPG ..but is it cost effective..good program most effective..if you still WANT (please notice DIDNOT say need) more thats the time to look at injectors,turbo,cam,so on,,,most people who get a good program with around 75 more HP and .5 to .7 more mpg are very happy..some want more..i have been told my whole life speed costs,how fast do you want to go..gotta say this has been very true,,

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littlejohn Posts: 89 Joined: Feb 2011	Saturday December 24, 2011 11:09 wrapping only works with nature asperated motors, keeps gases hot so it will do what they call scavaging which pulls on the next cylinder to fire, can't see how that will work with a turbo
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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Sunday December 25, 2011 14:01 << wrapping only works with nature asperated motors, keeps gases hot so it will do what they call scavaging which pulls on the next cylinder to fire, can't see how that will work with a turbo >> Turbos run on heat and CFM of engine exhaust. The hot exhaust gases expand as they cool which increases velocity through the turbine. So, some wrap exhaust manifold and housing to keep radiant heat loss to a minimum. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009

Saturday January 07, 2012 23:26 << Like grampa said.....it helps having more rather than less liner protrusion.....however, I have seen liners with .006 liner protrusion snap head bolts over long periods of hard running. I guess it all boils down to how hard you run for how long. We took an old head, capped off an intake port and applied air pressure and the intake valve started leaking just above 40 psi....not sure what that all means at running speeds... >> I've got my replacement block back from the machine shop, the guy said he was going to cut the counter bores and shim for .004 protrusion. I've got OEM cylinder kits and the are protruding as follows: 1-.005, 2-.006, 3-.006, 4-.006, 5-.007 and 6-.006. I checked these clamped down. I switched 1&5 and also measured the shims and still came up with the same final result. So what do you guys think, run it or get it back to the machine shop? I had a bad cavitation problem in my old block and liners which is most probably why I had oil in my coolant. ------------------------- Wayne Pontius

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JoeZ Posts: 938 Joined: Dec 2008

Sunday January 08, 2012 06:19 Take it back and get the .007 re-cut. Best thing to do is take the block and liners and have them get a better fit. I always match the liners to the block. Ideally you can get them all at .004 or greater..... but not .007. With the liners out, take a depth micrometer and check the counterbore depth at several places around the block. The top surface of the block may not be even all around the liner area. ------------------------- One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left. 44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on. Edited: Sunday January 08, 2012 at 06:24 by JoeZ

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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009	Sunday January 08, 2012 07:11 Thanks Joe, I'll do that tomorrow. I got the rebuild kit from the shop, guess it would have been nice if he had fitted them when it was all there! Oh well, just another day, for once I was thinking and checked this first before I had the block back in the truck. I want this engine right. ------------------------- Wayne Pontius
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PETEROD Posts: 55 Joined: Mar 2008	Sunday January 08, 2012 07:19 PONWAY, i havent ran mine yet, but i have one that has .007 in the front and .006 in the back, i needed to have my block decked, but i didnot, so i will see the result , i cut mine and they all are .005 or .006. lets hope this works. i cant see a thousandth giveing too much trouble , but i could be wrong.
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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012

Sunday January 15, 2012 20:20 hey im adam,been following this thread with much interest,and hope,ive got a 98 international 9200 with a flattop sleeper,and a 470 detroit,ive got it maxed it as far as i can go so far from the diesel doctor in effingham,who turned up my injectors ,took out droop, has me at 480 horse,but lively good no turbo lag,immediate horses, but nowhere near what you guys are getting with your custom ecm programming..theres alot id love to learn from some of you,and many performance questions...such as my next upgrade will be the donaldson m100463,if i dont already have one on there,cant find the writing on it yet,and was wondering as i study exhaust...and velocity heat etc..wondering about getting dual stacks...on 4 wheelers i remember dual exhaust made exhaust cooler,the reason for water accumulation running out of pipes according to shops...so..would a single stack donaldson be better,or a dual stack? ive got 410 rears,yeah..so runs about 1600 rpm at 65 mph and 1700 at 70 since i upped tire and wheel size from 22.5 low pro to 24.5 tall for an extra gear,it has a spicer pso-150-98 9 speed for now i hope this thread isnt dead and buried,looks like an awesome thread and i look forward to getting to know some of you and picking your brains ------------------------- are we there yet?

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Monday January 16, 2012 05:35 << hey im adam,been following this thread with much interest,and hope,ive got a 98 international 9200 with a flattop sleeper,and a 470 detroit,ive got it maxed it as far as i can go so far from the diesel doctor in effingham,who turned up my injectors ,took out droop, has me at 480 horse,but lively good no turbo lag,immediate horses, but nowhere near what you guys are getting with your custom ecm programming..theres alot id love to learn from some of you,and many performance questions...such as my next upgrade will be the donaldson m100463,if i dont already have one on there,cant find the writing on it yet,and was wondering as i study exhaust...and velocity heat etc..wondering about getting dual stacks...on 4 wheelers i remember dual exhaust made exhaust cooler,the reason for water accumulation running out of pipes according to shops...so..would a single stack donaldson be better,or a dual stack? ive got 410 rears,yeah..so runs about 1600 rpm at 65 mph and 1700 at 70 since i upped tire and wheel size from 22.5 low pro to 24.5 tall for an extra gear,it has a spicer pso-150-98 9 speed for now i hope this thread isnt dead and buried,looks like an awesome thread and i look forward to getting to know some of you and picking your brains >> Welcome Adam .Ryder Fleet Products has a good price on the mufflers. http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/ryder/af/ryder/core/content/product/srm/key/W26%20M100463/pn/Muffler/erm/productDetail.do

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cgliv Posts: 4 Joined: Sep 2011	Thursday January 19, 2012 21:43 Question for Grandpa. I have the BW177287 Turbo, Works great but when under a heavy load I create to much boost and engine light comes on and derates the engine. What do you need to do to fool the Boost sensor?
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Friday January 20, 2012 17:02 mine set up for street carries 55 lbs of boost right now..i have never tried to fool the light,we just change the overboost setting in the ecm..you can change the setting,or delete it,we choose to reset it just in case..good luck
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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Friday January 20, 2012 20:26 << << Like grampa said.....it helps having more rather than less liner protrusion.....however, I have seen liners with .006 liner protrusion snap head bolts over long periods of hard running. I guess it all boils down to how hard you run for how long. We took an old head, capped off an intake port and applied air pressure and the intake valve started leaking just above 40 psi....not sure what that all means at running speeds... >> I've got my replacement block back from the machine shop, the guy said he was going to cut the counter bores and shim for .004 protrusion. I've got OEM cylinder kits and the are protruding as follows: 1-.005, 2-.006, 3-.006, 4-.006, 5-.007 and 6-.006. I checked these clamped down. I switched 1&5 and also measured the shims and still came up with the same final result. So what do you guys think, run it or get it back to the machine shop? I had a bad cavitation problem in my old block and liners which is most probably why I had oil in my coolant. >> Was the contaminant in your coolant black or milky? I know you probably have it back together but for what its worth, I just built my 14L and was able to stack the tollerances to within .0003-.0005 (yes, thats tenth thousanths) across all six. pulll the o-rings off the liners and fit that way. First, measure and mark with a sharpe each liner lip thickness, shim, and counterbore depth. Then mix and match to get most consistant protrusion. My counterbores were cut in frame and very close. Adjacent hole protrusion is most important! Measure liner lip and counterbore at 180 or 120 degrees to see variance, it should be in tenth thousanths. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009	Friday January 20, 2012 21:59 Junkyardkid, The contaminate in the coolant was black, not milky. I took the block back and got it reworked a second time and liner protrusions now are @ .005, checked it without seals and clamped. I took this problem to a new topic, "liner fit". Should have it running this weekend. Thanks ------------------------- Wayne Pontius
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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Saturday January 21, 2012 22:20 Ponway, if it was black, then it would be soot from a pinhole in the liner, not oil, oil would emulsify. I had the same issue in my old 12.7 and changed the oil cooler thinking it was oil untill one day it clicked. After I posted I dug around and saw the other post and realized you had it figured out and lots of good help from others. Sounds like you're doing a thorough job, most would have missed it. Including maybe me. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012

Saturday January 28, 2012 10:44 Just spent the last hour reading through this post. I would like to have my ecm reprogrammed but don't know who to go with. It is hard to get an understanding for this but I called a few people and all the specs that they give me that they program seem the same but the prices vary from $250-1800 for the service. I have done a little research on this and it seems to me (this is where you guys can correct me if I am wrong) that all these guys use the same product and software. The software has certain programs that you can install and a few other parameters you can tweek, so if you install the 600hp program and tweak a few other parameters that it allows you to go into then why would I pay more for someone else to do the same thing? None of these guys appear cabable of writing their own software or programs so it seems like they just install an existing program (possibly a factory setting for extreme duty applications such as fire trucks etc...) and then tweak a few other parameters that you can actually set at whatever you like. My truck is a 99 Volvo Had a 500hp DDEC4 from factory, now it has a 430/500hp DDEC4 from a wrecked Freightliner daycab with 250k on it as I blew two rods on the original motor last year when the air compressor cracked and sent coolant into the intake. Truck is upgraded to a 16913 eaton fuller 13spd double overdrive with 3.08 rears (yes it runs triple digits and very low cruise rpm if on flat land otherwise I run it in 12th gear and yes it is nice to hit a hill at 80mph and downshift next to a guy who cannot believe you can downshift at 80mph or downshift into 11th at 70mph and sail up the hill) I get 7.6mpg and pull a 50 ton lowboy, step deck and triaxle flatbed. I am plated for a 120k lbs but only 10-15% of my loads are over 90k gross, most of the time I am at 70-80k with a few easy loads in between (can get 10mpg with light loads) The tall rear gears just mean I have to use low low to take off when I am at 100k gross or up hill at over 60k or so. Please, someone with some knowledge tell me where to go for inexpensive programming and it must remain reliable.

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JoeZ Posts: 938 Joined: Dec 2008	Saturday January 28, 2012 13:31 I can't imagine with the numbers you posted....why would you want to change anything?? It sounds like what you have is a good combination already. ------------------------- One of the last 2 Stroke mechanics left. 44 years in the business and worked on everything from 53 series to 149 series. Winding it down now...time to move on.
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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012

Sunday January 29, 2012 12:56 It is a good combo but sluggish and very slow up hills when at over 80k gross (slower than my other truck with a ISX500 10 speed egr junk motor that costs me $1000s every year just to service with outrageously expensive parts) I have a spare computer so for $250 I wanted to experiment a little and see if I can do better. Just looking for some insight on these guys who program them. My biggest complaint is that Detroits don't inject full fuel till over 8psi of boost which the Pittsburgh box claims to overcome but the programmers tell me that even with the 600hp program that is one variable they cannot change. This is my personal truck that I don't bang gears on or lug up hills without downshifting with those tall gears and almost never let my drivers drive this one (they're primadonnas anyway and want the newer trucks and can't understand why I like that old 99 that is in better shape than any of the trucks they drive half that age)

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Sunday January 29, 2012 21:34 i don't know what programers you have talked to,or how much you want to spend..but i have to wonder how many offered you a 30 day money back guaranty..i know erich at serious series 60 performance diesel does..but like i tell everyone,, its your hard earned dollar spend it anyway you like..good luck..
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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Wednesday February 01, 2012 20:45 Different programmers will have different experience and ways to get to a given horsepower. Smoke, no smoke, timing, rpm, torque and how it carries through the rpm. Two guys may make the same horsepower but if one makes more torque earlier in the rpm and can do it while keeping the egt's in check that will be the stronger truck overall. So, potentially your paying for the knowledge and experience an individual may have to put you in the HP range you want to be in safely. I think the lower HP numbers are relatively easy to do safely but as you get higher the tuning becomes very important. Also, the stock Garret turbos have small shafts and tight housings so be careful how hard you push em. I would'nt disable the wastegate it'll push the compressor out of its efficiency, push drive pressures up and maybe overspeed the turbo. Reread grampas post's there is alot there. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012

Friday February 03, 2012 07:06 I don't think you read my post, I am implying that NONE OF THEM ARE PROGRAMMERS. They have one of the computers with software (I followed a link in an earlier reply to see the equipment required) and all they do is install a pre-existing program and only change a couple paramaters that are accesible and make all kinds of claims as to how theirs is the best program etc... I have spoke on the phone with some of these guys and I assure you that they would not know the first thing about programming, they are using existing software. Having said all that can someone give me the number for this Eric (serious 60) and I will talk to him and see what he has to offer. I don't feel like blowing an engine but I need more power, on Monday I will be grossing 168,000lbs pulling an Eagle 1400 crusher with a 28k lbs addition.

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Friday February 03, 2012 22:07 << I don't think you read my post, I am implying that NONE OF THEM ARE PROGRAMMERS. They have one of the computers with software (I followed a link in an earlier reply to see the equipment required) and all they do is install a pre-existing program and only change a couple paramaters that are accesible and make all kinds of claims as to how theirs is the best program etc... I have spoke on the phone with some of these guys and I assure you that they would not know the first thing about programming, they are using existing software. Having said all that can someone give me the number for this Eric (serious 60) and I will talk to him and see what he has to offer. I don't feel like blowing an engine but I need more power, on Monday I will be grossing 168,000lbs pulling an Eagle 1400 crusher with a 28k lbs addition. >> Eric is 570-412-0754 The programs work I have been running mine for over 3 years now ,Hardpulls watch gauges but you do that now anyway.I can personally say you will like it,and if you dont it will be put back just like you sent it in.I can also tell you there has never been a return because the customer was not happy/\. There is no reason for anyone to write a new program there are so many programs written and the correct person can/has merged them into new versions peaked tweaked etc, I have met guys in europe that are engineer's engineers if you know what I'm saying ,laymens terms KNOW THEIR SHIT! But we have a few here that do too.GiveEric a call you'll be happy with the program.

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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012

Friday February 03, 2012 23:01 Excellent info, I will be calling him. Have you had your EGT run hot at all since the tune? And yes, what I meant that going into a program and changing a few paramaters is the same as a guy changing the timing on the distributor and the mixture screws on your carburator but not a whole new engine set up from scratch. Just for curiosity, has anyone heard of Saed out of Florida that is on Ebay offering reprogramming cheap?

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Saturday February 04, 2012 06:05 << Excellent info, I will be calling him. Have you had your EGT run hot at all since the tune? And yes, what I meant that going into a program and changing a few paramaters is the same as a guy changing the timing on the distributor and the mixture screws on your carburator but not a whole new engine set up from scratch. Just for curiosity, has anyone heard of Saed out of Florida that is on Ebay offering reprogramming cheap? >> I have not heard of Saed myself. My pyro temp gage has never gone over 1100. Water temp is my biggest issue but only on hardlong pulls,I pull liquid tankers and gross out at around 79000 I have also changed injectors too a set for a DDEC2 They are actually too big ,I was trying to save some money,and hind site is 20/20 I run a Borg Warner 171702 turbo Boost pressure will peg my gauge which goes to 45 lbs on the face. My truck loves cool weather and pulls real strong for a 12.7 L engine Summertime I get more smoke than I like due to the injectors and hot outside temp.When time comes and I have extra cash too piss away,lol I am dropping the injector size down a couple steps.

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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012	Saturday February 04, 2012 10:14 thanks for the link stump, so should i order 1 donaldson or 2 ? if added weight and expense arent an issue,if id gain more with opening up 1 stack with a donaldson,would i gain even more by having another stack put on? sorry about the lateness of my reply disrupting the conversation ------------------------- are we there yet?
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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012	Saturday February 04, 2012 10:17 oh..and just wanted to make sure on what you said earlier about the m100463 donaldson before i order it,pittsburgh power claims their performance muffler is their own design,and not the same ..so..i just wanted to double check with you on that ------------------------- are we there yet?
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Saturday February 04, 2012 15:22 Everybody I have talked too says the donaldson is the same,the free er flowing your exhaust is the less temp you are going to have.
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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012

Sunday February 05, 2012 09:11 For the Donaldson question: I bought Pittsburg mufflers for my 99 which I have duals on. I needed a muffler for my 01 which has a single and my Volvo dealer sold me a Donaldson for $69, it looks and sounds exactly the same. I did not cut them open to tell you anything for sure but I would just save the money. As far as my programming dilemma goes I spoke with Eric and he is a very, very knowledgeable guy. He knows his stuff that is for sure. I had many of my questions answered and most of the assumptions that I made are correct. First off, they are not witing a program, the only one that he actually installs a different program on is the DDEC2 which he has a 600hp Australian program for. He goes in and changes some parameters in the software, he adds 15% fuel and bumps the revlimiter to 2400 which, if I understood him correctly, fools the computer to inject fuel earlier even if you never plan on revving it that high. Sounds to me like he experimented with quite a few settings and has it pretty well figured out. Because of my stock turbo he seemed slightly concerned about exhaust temp when I pull heavy (130k etc..) The guy definitely knows what he is doing but he charges $950 for his work. I understand that he has some R&D into this but that is a little steep for 2 hours of shop labor if you ask me but really cheap if I blow my motor with some other dude's tune. I took my Cummins to the dealer and they only charged me $210 to upgrade it 100hp so I am just weighing how much I want to spend.

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Sunday February 05, 2012 15:39 << For the Donaldson question: I bought Pittsburg mufflers for my 99 which I have duals on. I needed a muffler for my 01 which has a single and my Volvo dealer sold me a Donaldson for $69, it looks and sounds exactly the same. I did not cut them open to tell you anything for sure but I would just save the money. As far as my programming dilemma goes I spoke with Eric and he is a very, very knowledgeable guy. He knows his stuff that is for sure. I had many of my questions answered and most of the assumptions that I made are correct. First off, they are not witing a program, the only one that he actually installs a different program on is the DDEC2 which he has a 600hp Australian program for. He goes in and changes some parameters in the software, he adds 15% fuel and bumps the revlimiter to 2400 which, if I understood him correctly, fools the computer to inject fuel earlier even if you never plan on revving it that high. Sounds to me like he experimented with quite a few settings and has it pretty well figured out. Because of my stock turbo he seemed slightly concerned about exhaust temp when I pull heavy (130k etc..) The guy definitely knows what he is doing but he charges $950 for his work. I understand that he has some R&D into this but that is a little steep for 2 hours of shop labor if you ask me but really cheap if I blow my motor with some other dude's tune. I took my Cummins to the dealer and they only charged me $210 to upgrade it 100hp so I am just weighing how much I want to spend. >> I'm sure he told you if you dont like it you'll get a full refund You really dont have anything to lose.Compared to PDI it's cheap and I can tell you it works i have been running the program for 3 years. It's your decision and your money.

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killa838 Posts: 6 Joined: Apr 2011

Tuesday February 07, 2012 06:17 << For the Donaldson question: I bought Pittsburg mufflers for my 99 which I have duals on. I needed a muffler for my 01 which has a single and my Volvo dealer sold me a Donaldson for $69, it looks and sounds exactly the same. I did not cut them open to tell you anything for sure but I would just save the money. As far as my programming dilemma goes I spoke with Eric and he is a very, very knowledgeable guy. He knows his stuff that is for sure. I had many of my questions answered and most of the assumptions that I made are correct. First off, they are not witing a program, the only one that he actually installs a different program on is the DDEC2 which he has a 600hp Australian program for. He goes in and changes some parameters in the software, he adds 15% fuel and bumps the revlimiter to 2400 which, if I understood him correctly, fools the computer to inject fuel earlier even if you never plan on revving it that high. Sounds to me like he experimented with quite a few settings and has it pretty well figured out. Because of my stock turbo he seemed slightly concerned about exhaust temp when I pull heavy (130k etc..) The guy definitely knows what he is doing but he charges $950 for his work. I understand that he has some R&D into this but that is a little steep for 2 hours of shop labor if you ask me but really cheap if I blow my motor with some other dude's tune. I took my Cummins to the dealer and they only charged me $210 to upgrade it 100hp so I am just weighing how much I want to spend. >> Edited: Tuesday February 07, 2012 at 06:19 by killa838

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MrSmith Posts: 13 Joined: Dec 2010	Friday February 10, 2012 09:44 Has anybody been able to retune the detroits on cold startup. I hate the 900+ rpm when firing a cold motor. Cat is superslow on startup until 65 degrees and then goes to normal idle. Can this be programmed?? I haven't called the tuner I used on it yet, and will if nobody here has.
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Friday February 10, 2012 09:54 << Has anybody been able to retune the detroits on cold startup. I hate the 900+ rpm when firing a cold motor. Cat is superslow on startup until 65 degrees and then goes to normal idle. Can this be programmed?? I haven't called the tuner I used on it yet, and will if nobody here has. >> . He can change the cold speed.
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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012

Wednesday February 15, 2012 22:13 first off thanks stump,thanks bwdzieko.. 2ndly HELP please! i dont have much time to make this decision , had been running hard for a couple days ...i just had a very loud loud pop at a stop sign in alexandria alabama,and then smoke everywhere,and oil coming out my stack..tow truck brohgt me to attalah alabama to a little mom and pop place,autos towing and recovery..a little do it all shop..anyway..tommorow theyll order parts for it..they said most likely turbo and or injector o rings popped...i dont want to just put any ol turbo on..if im going to drop so much money..i want the baddest turbo i can get.someone tell me which one to get..are the bully dog turbos any good?..ive got a 470 detroit,effingham diesel doctor turned it up by turning up the injectors,and taking droop out of the turbo,which made it respond immediately,fuel milege was supposed to increase..but decreased big time,even thouhg it was supposed to improve,i went from 8 mpg loaded on good days,with a 6.73 mpg lifetime average on the computer readout,to 5 mpg,even thouhg i keep my foot out of it. so...a 98 interntional 9200 with a turned up 470,and 410 rear gears,runs 1650 to 1700 rpm on the interstate,and soon to be adding another stack with 2 donaldson mufflers....i normally pull a flatbed, a typical load might be south houston texas to top of north dakota,1700 miles,or west virginia to houston,etc..so truck stays wound up for long trips,and i wont say how many miles,but you know how it is...2 day trips in a day..so..i need to know which turbo to get....help please ------------------------- are we there yet?

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ponway Posts: 154 Joined: Nov 2009

Thursday February 16, 2012 05:37 Just my 2 cents, but I would go with a Borg Warner 171702. Stumps says you can get them @ TruckPro for around $600.00. There is one in Decatur, AL, Ph 256-355-4421. I paid $689 w/shipping for a brand new one, not rebuilt from a place in IL. I have a similar setup with a tune from Erich and it performs very nice. I'm currently using my stock ECM following my overhaul and it performs good with it as well. I have a 1996 430/470 and still using 5575 injectors. Good luck! P.S. I'd throw the Garretts in the trash! Had 2 explode on me. JMO ------------------------- Wayne Pontius

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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012	Thursday February 16, 2012 10:08 thanks ponway,i gave the shop here that phone # and theyll pick it up tommorow hopefully,695$ before this shop adds their own markup to it,thanks,hopefully ill get my fuel economy back now too,this shop kept telling me to go with another garrett,lol..glad i didnt listen to them ------------------------- are we there yet?
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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Monday February 20, 2012 20:37 << I don't think you read my post, I am implying that NONE OF THEM ARE PROGRAMMERS. They have one of the computers with software (I followed a link in an earlier reply to see the equipment required) and all they do is install a pre-existing program and only change a couple paramaters that are accesible and make all kinds of claims as to how theirs is the best program etc... I have spoke on the phone with some of these guys and I assure you that they would not know the first thing about programming, they are using existing software. Having said all that can someone give me the number for this Eric (serious 60) and I will talk to him and see what he has to offer. I don't feel like blowing an engine but I need more power, on Monday I will be grossing 168,000lbs pulling an Eagle 1400 crusher with a 28k lbs addition. >> bwdzieko, I read your post, but stupid me, I missed the implication and thought you were asking an honest question Since, "NONE OF THEM ARE PROGRAMMERS" why don't you buy the software and do it yourself? Just install one of the programs it comes with and tweak. If you want it done right do it yourself! By programming do you mean hack into the ECM with your laptop and right a new improved operating system? Cause I assure you, NONE of them are doing that! They ALL, however are using existing software and adjusting parameters to get a desired outcome. The question is which tables do you tweak to get what HP and TQ? How do you change duration,timing? How far can you go before you run into problems? You owe all the "programmers" an apology for insulting them like that! They all seem to have a good reputation and have helped guys get good running trucks! They each have their merits and none of them deserve to be insulted for putting a value on what they offer!!! You seem like the type who copy cats what others have hard earned and takes credit for it as your own, Good luck to ya. ------------------------- truckin for fun! Edited: Monday February 20, 2012 at 20:42 by junkyardkid

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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012

Sunday February 26, 2012 20:53 ok..reading your guys info about the programmers....even thouhg im not happy about loss of fuel economy since giving the diesel doctor my 100 bucks,it appears he did the exact same thing all the other programmers you guys mentioned would do after reading all your post more in depth,they (diesel doctor) turned up my injector response time to .75%,fooled computer by bumping rev limiter to 2400 so it gets fuel at low rpm,removed turbo lag by removing turbo droop whatever that means ,so it responds like a mechanical engine,gave it an extra 150 ft lbs on torque,and 50 extra horses puting it up to 480 hp,removed progressive shifting,and it ran like a raped ape afterwards,and pulled grades in highgear..so since all you guys got better fuel economy...why didnt i?? and my turbo blew up a few weeks afterwards...is that coincidence?? im just wondering if it makes sense for me to now go place to place getting my ecm done over again if what they will do has already been done to it...but id like my fuel economy back,but want to keep the power,i keep my foot out of it ------------------------- are we there yet?

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Monday February 27, 2012 08:49 i would have to suggest you reread the thread and pay closer attention this time.you will notice some people have issues with there programers some don't..your 75% is not..he entered 75 injector codes.depending on injector codes maybe 3% to 5% more fuel..if you really want your own personal program it can be done..how big is your wallet..first you have to know what you want..then you have to know how to get it..there is a lot of R&D at this point..you want to talk to the people that actually run there trucks to make a living..not those that make a living off of truckers..some have first hand feedback..others have second or third hand info..spend YOUR money wisely..good luck

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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012

Friday March 16, 2012 06:28 I can possibly speculate on this, Eric told me that the stock turbo cannot take that high boost for very long unless you have the wastegated turbo which will limit itself and not blow up. So I just got my computer back from Said in Florida with a printout of everything he changed, have no idea what much of it means except the 600+ hp and 1850+ torque, 2400rpm rev and all that. I will let you guys know the results or any problems that I have with it in a week or so when I put it on and pull some loads with it. $270 with shipping so I took a chance.

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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012

Friday March 16, 2012 07:51 hope yours does better than mine Bud,mine has just been dumping the fuel straight out the stack since it was done,can see it,and it coats whatever i pull behind me,im going to have mine redone,or buy another ecm,my detroit didnt come with a jake brake,and some programmers say that if they put on another detroit program,for a 500 hp facory deal,it may flash error codes at me,since they think they dont have a 500 program for the series 60 that comes with a jake,i do know that going to the wrong guy to have mine done has about put me out of buisiness with the 2 mpg loss,i cant afford to work anymore,may be done soon ------------------------- are we there yet?

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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012	Friday March 16, 2012 07:56 correction-dont have the 500 horse detroit program for the 470 that DOESNT come with a jake,lol. and thanks for your speculation on the turbo issue,makes sense,and i appreciate it ------------------------- are we there yet?
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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012

Friday March 30, 2012 06:04 I can give you this guys number in Florida, he will reprogram it for you for $250. I can now report on how the truck drives having driven it for over a week with the new program. It is fantastic. The power is way up, the throttle response is instant and as a matter of fact it spins tires when shifting when bobtailing. There is no more waiting for power, its like a mechanical engine, hit the gas and it is instant power. I have not pulled any mountains with it but it does great on hills. The other day I was following my other truck (ISX500hp) and I had 15k lbs more on me and was running him over on hills. I am thrilled with it. There is some black smoke out of the stacks if I just peg the gas but I cant say for sure that it is more than it was maybe I am just a little paranoid about it. Hard to say about fuel mileage as I have pulled weird weight loads like one was 55k and than 137k lbs etc.. I need to pull a few 78-80k gross to get a good ball park if it changed but for now it appears the same. Now I am off to the shop for more outrageously expensive ISX parts (hate that motor) turbo is leaking and they want $3400 for it (variable geometry, water cooled turbo, shucks)

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killa838 Posts: 6 Joined: Apr 2011

Friday March 30, 2012 11:17 << I can give you this guys number in Florida, he will reprogram it for you for $250. I can now report on how the truck drives having driven it for over a week with the new program. It is fantastic. The power is way up, the throttle response is instant and as a matter of fact it spins tires when shifting when bobtailing. There is no more waiting for power, its like a mechanical engine, hit the gas and it is instant power. I have not pulled any mountains with it but it does great on hills. The other day I was following my other truck (ISX500hp) and I had 15k lbs more on me and was running him over on hills. I am thrilled with it. There is some black smoke out of the stacks if I just peg the gas but I cant say for sure that it is more than it was maybe I am just a little paranoid about it. Hard to say about fuel mileage as I have pulled weird weight loads like one was 55k and than 137k lbs etc.. I need to pull a few 78-80k gross to get a good ball park if it changed but for now it appears the same. Now I am off to the shop for more outrageously expensive ISX parts (hate that motor) turbo is leaking and they want $3400 for it (variable geometry, water cooled turbo, shucks) >>

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killa838 Posts: 6 Joined: Apr 2011	Friday March 30, 2012 11:25
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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012

Tuesday April 24, 2012 14:58 Update now that I have a few more miles on it: The fuel mileage is unreal, I am getting a tick over 8mpg loaded and I drive over 70mph most of the time. I was pulling two loads down to Tn from Detroit and was following my truck with the 500 ISX, we had the same load, I could have run him over on hills on I71 there by Louisville. It was a significant difference how much better mine pulled, when we got to Franklin, KY we both refueled and the price tag to put fuel in the isx sucked bad. The ISX got 5.9mpg while I got 8.1mpg pulling the same load (about 40k lbs) over those hills and we ran pretty fast hardly ever dropping below 70mph with cruise set at 73mph and occasional bursts to 80+mph. The fuel mileage comparison is a little unfair as the truck with the ISX is not optimized for averaging over 70 as it has 3.55s in it with 11r22.5 and I turn only around 1400 rpm at that speed with my tall gears but still that was a huge difference.

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killa838 Posts: 6 Joined: Apr 2011

Tuesday April 24, 2012 18:34 << Update now that I have a few more miles on it: The fuel mileage is unreal, I am getting a tick over 8mpg loaded and I drive over 70mph most of the time. I was pulling two loads down to Tn from Detroit and was following my truck with the 500 ISX, we had the same load, I could have run him over on hills on I71 there by Louisville. It was a significant difference how much better mine pulled, when we got to Franklin, KY we both refueled and the price tag to put fuel in the isx sucked bad. The ISX got 5.9mpg while I got 8.1mpg pulling the same load (about 40k lbs) over those hills and we ran pretty fast hardly ever dropping below 70mph with cruise set at 73mph and occasional bursts to 80+mph. The fuel mileage comparison is a little unfair as the truck with the ISX is not optimized for averaging over 70 as it has 3.55s in it with 11r22.5 and I turn only around 1400 rpm at that speed with my tall gears but still that was a huge difference. >> Thanks for the update those are some great numbers,The guy who did your program is he from Orlando.

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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012

Thursday April 26, 2012 14:37 I would have to go back and look at it again but yeah, I seem to remember that it was Orlando or near there, I found him on Ebay but then contacted him directly. He has a bit of an accent and doesn't answer the phone instantly but will call you back same day (maybe this is his moonlighting job) I shipped him my computer with engine serial no, what I wanted done and a money order for $270 (250 for program and 20 to ship it back) I am in MI and he is in Florida so it took about a week turnaround time but I shipped my spare computer from old engine.

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killa838 Posts: 6 Joined: Apr 2011	Thursday April 26, 2012 16:18 I believe is name is Saed,a friend of mine just got is program by him.
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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012	Wednesday May 02, 2012 07:41 same guy, saed was his name
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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012

Friday May 11, 2012 20:51 well whats his #? i never go to new york for the programmer there, or to pennsylvania where Erich is ,and couldnt get ahold of brad in georgia,so my options are limited,but florida i can get loads to,i wont take my ecm off to send it to someone,but id want them to hook up to it while it was on the truck,and you only got a half mile increase,i want about a 3 mpg increase considering i lost at least 2 mpg from stock after diesel doctors daughter did mine while hes in jail,and even if it was 1000$ it would be cheap considering that my cheap 100$ programming cost me many thousands of dollars now,it would have been much cheaper for me to just have bought the pittsburgh power box for 2,500 looking back ------------------------- are we there yet?

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amishmafia00 Posts: 53 Joined: Apr 2012

Saturday May 12, 2012 03:49 I would never go go georgia for a program. We sent two both while we were rebuilding them. they both went out within a month. one scored the liners. the other was something I've never seen. It couldn't have been more than two weeks and the liners pitted through on brand new liners. all the pitting was lined up on the side of the liner. I think his tune may have caused some extra piston slap and caused cavitation on the liners. Good thing he never even charged us. but that makes it the most expensive money I never spent. http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/asia_pacific_brochures/3300963A.pdf << well whats his #? i never go to new york for the programmer there, or to pennsylvania where Erich is ,and couldnt get ahold of brad in georgia,so my options are limited,but florida i can get loads to,i wont take my ecm off to send it to someone,but id want them to hook up to it while it was on the truck,and you only got a half mile increase,i want about a 3 mpg increase considering i lost at least 2 mpg from stock after diesel doctors daughter did mine while hes in jail,and even if it was 1000$ it would be cheap considering that my cheap 100$ programming cost me many thousands of dollars now,it would have been much cheaper for me to just have bought the pittsburgh power box for 2,500 looking back >>

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Monday May 14, 2012 18:04 << I would never go go georgia for a program. We sent two both while we were rebuilding them. they both went out within a month. one scored the liners. the other was something I've never seen. It couldn't have been more than two weeks and the liners pitted through on brand new liners. all the pitting was lined up on the side of the liner. I think his tune may have caused some extra piston slap and caused cavitation on the liners. Good thing he never even charged us. but that makes it the most expensive money I never spent. http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/asia_pacific_brochures/3300963A.pdf << well whats his #? i never go to new york for the programmer there, or to pennsylvania where Erich is ,and couldnt get ahold of brad in georgia,so my options are limited,but florida i can get loads to,i wont take my ecm off to send it to someone,but id want them to hook up to it while it was on the truck,and you only got a half mile increase,i want about a 3 mpg increase considering i lost at least 2 mpg from stock after diesel doctors daughter did mine while hes in jail,and even if it was 1000$ it would be cheap considering that my cheap 100$ programming cost me many thousands of dollars now,it would have been much cheaper for me to just have bought the pittsburgh power box for 2,500 looking back >> >> Amish, I've dynoed big numbers with Brads tune and no problems. (knock on wood) I also run it like I dyno. Egt probe is before turbo and when I go to blowing lots of smoke under full power my Egt's can go 1800 deg plus, so I pay close attention to gauges. When working i NEVER excede 1300 deg for any duration. I've heard tell of folks with turned up trucks scoring liners and I'm looking for the common denominator, did you run your egts too hot for too long? Asking for information, not to be to be a jerk. Any info is appreciated! Also, where is your egt probe? Before or after turbo? ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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amishmafia00 Posts: 53 Joined: Apr 2012

Monday May 14, 2012 19:58 There is no doubt that His tune made lots of power. It's been quite a while, We had two trucks done by him. the one the guy was most likely flat to the floor all the time. this one scored liners. The other Driver is about as cautious as they come. (he currently runs our highest hp truck which takes a very light foot to keep it from smoking even when empty) The scored liners was driver abuse. the other one didn't score a liner It pitted through a brand new liner in about a month and when he went to start it in the morning it was hydro locked. the first thing that I noticed with brads tune was the max pulse width was maxed out (65ish) If I remember right factory is 40. I've been told that increasing pulse width will waste a motor. but then that's how alot of people increase hp. This may not really be relevant but We have a 12l that we swapped onto an industrial piece that had a 3408. It should be putting out about 650-700 ish hp. We use filtered pond water plumbed through heat exchangers to cool the engine and intake air. Now this may be cheating because of how cool the intake air is, but egts usually run 800. sometimes if it's really working it will get up towards 900 ( after the turbo). as far as egt's on the trucks. after the scored liners I don't turn up anyones truck who won't drive it right. I think I told him that egt should never go over 1100 but i don't know where it typically runs Amish, I've dynoed big numbers with Brads tune and no problems. (knock on wood) I also run it like I dyno. Egt probe is before turbo and when I go to blowing lots of smoke under full power my Egt's can go 1800 deg plus, so I pay close attention to gauges. When working i NEVER excede 1300 deg for any duration. I've heard tell of folks with turned up trucks scoring liners and I'm looking for the common denominator, did you run your egts too hot for too long? Asking for information, not to be to be a jerk. Any info is appreciated! Also, where is your egt probe? Before or after turbo? >>

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Friday May 18, 2012 22:09 Amish, thanks for the reply, thats helpful info to me! Any chance you remember if the scoring was in the top of liner/ piston and rings or lower part of liner/piston skirt? Also, you think maybe the pond water had alot of metals in it that would conduct electrolesis and maybe further compounded by charging sytem or block not being grounded well? I had a block thet was ate up with electrolesis and have always been curious as to contributing factors. Thanks again for the info. ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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killa838 Posts: 6 Joined: Apr 2011

Sunday May 20, 2012 05:22 << well whats his #? i never go to new york for the programmer there, or to pennsylvania where Erich is ,and couldnt get ahold of brad in georgia,so my options are limited,but florida i can get loads to,i wont take my ecm off to send it to someone,but id want them to hook up to it while it was on the truck,and you only got a half mile increase,i want about a 3 mpg increase considering i lost at least 2 mpg from stock after diesel doctors daughter did mine while hes in jail,and even if it was 1000$ it would be cheap considering that my cheap 100$ programming cost me many thousands of dollars now,it would have been much cheaper for me to just have bought the pittsburgh power box for 2,500 looking back >> Sead 407 851 8225 I used Leon out of CT. 203 395 5595. Mark

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PETEROD Posts: 55 Joined: Mar 2008

Sunday May 27, 2012 07:42 i dont want to but in on your confersation, but i will tell that the program that im running now has never reached 900 deg egt at 85,000lbs pulling the hardest i can pull at over 600 hp, i will say that my ex temp is cooler now than with stock engine, the programmer i used did his homework, but remember one thing, a programed ecm cannot work with out the proper componets. i still beleive u get what u pay for. i average 5.4 mpg to 6.8 mpg without having to watch my pyro. have a good day everyone

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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010

Sunday May 27, 2012 16:09 << i dont want to but in on your confersation, but i will tell that the program that im running now has never reached 900 deg egt at 85,000lbs pulling the hardest i can pull at over 600 hp, i will say that my ex temp is cooler now than with stock engine, the programmer i used did his homework, but remember one thing, a programed ecm cannot work with out the proper componets. i still beleive u get what u pay for. i average 5.4 mpg to 6.8 mpg without having to watch my pyro. have a good day everyone >> who di your programming? thank you. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS

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PETEROD Posts: 55 Joined: Mar 2008	Sunday May 27, 2012 20:20 THE ONE AND ONLY ERICH
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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010	Monday May 28, 2012 07:30 << THE ONE AND ONLY ERICH >> just as i thought. will be contacting him again soon as i get things lined up. thank you. ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS
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duke Posts: 9 Joined: Dec 2010	Monday May 28, 2012 13:48 ------------------------- robgen
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dhooks Posts: 1 Joined: Jun 2012

Sunday June 17, 2012 20:50 << I can give you this guys number in Florida, he will reprogram it for you for $250. I can now report on how the truck drives having driven it for over a week with the new program. It is fantastic. The power is way up, the throttle response is instant and as a matter of fact it spins tires when shifting when bobtailing. There is no more waiting for power, its like a mechanical engine, hit the gas and it is instant power. I have not pulled any mountains with it but it does great on hills. The other day I was following my other truck (ISX500hp) and I had 15k lbs more on me and was running him over on hills. I am thrilled with it. There is some black smoke out of the stacks if I just peg the gas but I cant say for sure that it is more than it was maybe I am just a little paranoid about it. Hard to say about fuel mileage as I have pulled weird weight loads like one was 55k and than 137k lbs etc.. I need to pull a few 78-80k gross to get a good ball park if it changed but for now it appears the same. Now I am off to the shop for more outrageously expensive ISX parts (hate that motor) turbo is leaking and they want $3400 for it (variable geometry, water cooled turbo, shucks) >> I cant figure out how to email on here, how do I get the number for the fl guy he would be local to me.

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amishmafia00 Posts: 53 Joined: Apr 2012

Monday June 18, 2012 15:05 << Amish, thanks for the reply, thats helpful info to me! Any chance you remember if the scoring was in the top of liner/ piston and rings or lower part of liner/piston skirt? Also, you think maybe the pond water had alot of metals in it that would conduct electrolesis and maybe further compounded by charging sytem or block not being grounded well? I had a block thet was ate up with electrolesis and have always been curious as to contributing factors. Thanks again for the info. >> The engines with issues were in trucks, i don't remember what areas exactly were scored. the engine that uses pond water for cooling uses a heat exchanger to engine coolant so no pond water is actually in the engine

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junkyardkid Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 2011

Wednesday June 20, 2012 13:19 << << Amish, thanks for the reply, thats helpful info to me! Any chance you remember if the scoring was in the top of liner/ piston and rings or lower part of liner/piston skirt? Also, you think maybe the pond water had alot of metals in it that would conduct electrolesis and maybe further compounded by charging sytem or block not being grounded well? I had a block thet was ate up with electrolesis and have always been curious as to contributing factors. Thanks again for the info. >> The engines with issues were in trucks, i don't remember what areas exactly were scored. the engine that uses pond water for cooling uses a heat exchanger to engine coolant so no pond water is actually in the engine >> Thanks Amish ------------------------- truckin for fun!

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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012

Thursday June 28, 2012 10:50 id like some of your opinions and experience with the injector response time ,after visiting several detroit dealers,and then going straight to the detroit shop in liberal ks,not the freightliner dealer but the detroit shop,they told me the reason for my huge loss in fuel economy is the .75,or maybe its .80 injector response time,and if they went in and physically got the # s off the injectors,around 500 bucks,that i would most likely get my fuel economy back,they told me that with the .75 injector response time there was often a tendency to either dump fuel out the stack,or to the oil pan ,essentially making oil,when some peoples cylinders couldnt burn all the fuel being dumped in,and which they said is bad for a motor...which is my case. but i thought that the .75 response time was what everyone did that had turned up trucks,did any one you get your trucks turned up without doing the .75 or .80 injector response time? i thouhgt that was part of everyones higher horsepower tune,so id like some feedback please ------------------------- are we there yet?

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Thursday June 28, 2012 15:49 I was under impression that injector response time was only a factor to just off idle.......
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Thursday June 28, 2012 15:51 The 75 you are referring to is the injector calibration code. Each injector has a calibration code to make them balance out for a smooth idle. The 75 calibration worked real good on the 11.1L engines and some 12.7 . For a horsepower increase just off idle. If your truck idles smooth changing the codes back isn't going to do anything. The codes only apply at idle,if you bump up idle speed they no longer effect anything. This was explained to me by the guy that programed my ecm. He was a engineer st Detroit for awhile or something, I don't know who messed with your box but maby one of the guys programs that others of us use would be better. Or go back to the stock ecm program from Detroit and just run it. I don't know what to tell you and have no idea what paremeters your tuner changed.You might have to bite the bullett and start with another ecm program.

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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012

Thursday June 28, 2012 19:51 well i thouhgt the injector response time was just for getting up to speed too,bu tthe detroit diesel shop told me that it also has a tendency to leave the injectors open on the highway at cruise,they said it was good for getting up to speed ,but is whats causing it to dump fuel at cruise on the highway,so i was wondering if the .75 response time is going to be a necessary thing for every programmer,and heck yeah im ready to bite the bullet ,got 3.8 mpg with a load of alfalfa from northdakota to ks,cost me more in fuel than i got to haul it,so ive got the truck sitting now,cant afford to haul anyhitng under 3$ a mile now,so itll sit till i find a programmer to fix it. does every programmer use the .75 response time? do they all max out the pulse width? i just didnt want to restore mine to factory when im hoping i can get a programmer to fix it,but i want fuel economy,better than the factory 7 mpg i was getting before it got programmed. and maybe the detroit shop is full of crap,so i wanted to ask if everyone here was running the .75 response time,or if some were keeping detroit calibration codes instead for fuel economy,and if those of you who wer egetting 7-8 mpg loaded from your tunes were running the .75 or factory injector calibration codes ,im just trying to get educated here,and thanks again ------------------------- are we there yet?

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amishmafia00 Posts: 53 Joined: Apr 2012

Friday June 29, 2012 16:23 no, the 75 injector code is something that can be done by any shop with diagnostic software or a code reader. there is only one programmer that i know who maxes out the pulse width, and if you sent your ecm to him i feel very sorry for you. << well i thouhgt the injector response time was just for getting up to speed too,bu tthe detroit diesel shop told me that it also has a tendency to leave the injectors open on the highway at cruise,they said it was good for getting up to speed ,but is whats causing it to dump fuel at cruise on the highway,so i was wondering if the .75 response time is going to be a necessary thing for every programmer,and heck yeah im ready to bite the bullet ,got 3.8 mpg with a load of alfalfa from northdakota to ks,cost me more in fuel than i got to haul it,so ive got the truck sitting now,cant afford to haul anyhitng under 3$ a mile now,so itll sit till i find a programmer to fix it. does every programmer use the .75 response time? do they all max out the pulse width? i just didnt want to restore mine to factory when im hoping i can get a programmer to fix it,but i want fuel economy,better than the factory 7 mpg i was getting before it got programmed. and maybe the detroit shop is full of crap,so i wanted to ask if everyone here was running the .75 response time,or if some were keeping detroit calibration codes instead for fuel economy,and if those of you who wer egetting 7-8 mpg loaded from your tunes were running the .75 or factory injector calibration codes ,im just trying to get educated here,and thanks again >>

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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007

Friday June 29, 2012 16:44 Adam the 75 is the injector calibration code.period it has Nothing to do with your pulse width. If your pulse width was changed it was probably done with DCT detroit Calibration Tool.The CALIBRATION CODE as I explained earlier that is now set at 75 is just a performance setting But,I REPEAT BUT, It only has any effect at idle. It is originally set to the calibration numbers on each injector,What they do is balance out the idle so it is smooth,that way if one injector slightly overfuels more than the next it helps reduce it a tad so you have a smooth idle. I have played with all kinds of settings in mine with my pro link and dont see any difference.Something else must have been reconfigured in yours,I dont know what. I'll tell you what E-mail me at stumpman1@hotmail.com

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Friday June 29, 2012 19:58 adam this is where that discount program ain't such a deal anymore and the programmer no longer knows you..read the thread see who has had problems with lights flashing,codes flashing,pyro runs hot,engine smokes,poor mpg,then see who has not had problems,everything works the way it should,hell he even gives you a 30 day warranty.if you don't like it, send it back,he will fine tune it, or give your money back along with your original program..don't think it's that hard to figure out..good luck

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heavyhaulerss Posts: 234 Joined: Mar 2010

Saturday June 30, 2012 09:05 << adam this is where that discount program ain't such a deal anymore and the programmer no longer knows you..read the thread see who has had problems with lights flashing,codes flashing,pyro runs hot,engine smokes,poor mpg,then see who has not had problems,everything works the way it should,hell he even gives you a 30 day warranty.if you don't like it, send it back,he will fine tune it, or give your money back along with your original program..don't think it's that hard to figure out..good luck >> I second that! ------------------------- HEAVYHAULERSS

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duke Posts: 9 Joined: Dec 2010	Saturday June 30, 2012 10:26 got a 14l program by Erich and pyro still run,s hot put new cac on ran o/h even talked to them and ck thing,s they said to ck and still have no clue why it is getting hot loss some power anybody got any ideas ------------------------- robgen
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amishmafia00 Posts: 53 Joined: Apr 2012

Monday July 02, 2012 03:58 you say the pyro still runs hot. so it was running hot before you got the program? Has it always run hot? When you replaced the cac did you check the cac hoses? check the hose that goes from the bottom of the intake to the air compresor for a leak? what injectors cam and turbo are you running? is pyro before or after the turbo? What is it running? what is your boost gauge running? does the turbo seem to take a while to spool? (an exhaust leak before the turbo is just as bad, worse than a boost leak after the turbo? is it the 550 or 575 14l program? if it is the stock cam what is the engine model pk bk mk gk tk? when was the last time you changed your air cleaner(s)? Edited: Monday July 02, 2012 at 04:17 by amishmafia00

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olered Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2008	Monday July 02, 2012 10:40 Can someone split this thread into multiple pages to load faster(2 or 3)? It takes a bit for the long 1 page to load up.
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duke Posts: 9 Joined: Dec 2010	Tuesday July 03, 2012 12:26 Did not run hot before program put new hoses on when put new cac on pyro is after turbo bw turbo motor has 90.000 miles on oh ck what hose from air comp. good makes about 40 lbs boost erich set 575 program bottom line wish had my yellow motor back ------------------------- robgen
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amishmafia00 Posts: 53 Joined: Apr 2012	Tuesday July 03, 2012 15:26 what injectors do you have? and what turbo#? Edited: Wednesday July 04, 2012 at 06:11 by amishmafia00
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3rdGenDriver Posts: 25 Joined: Aug 2011	Saturday July 07, 2012 20:38 Amish you know ALOT about Detroits and troubleshooting ....... You wouldn't happen to be a tuner/gearhead now wouldya? Maybe even a tuner yourself the way you string those ?'s together. ------------------------- South Cakallaky
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3rdGenDriver Posts: 25 Joined: Aug 2011	Saturday July 07, 2012 21:09 Oh, and who does your programs......before and after Brad? Just wondering, u seem to know ALOT about tuning for someone who sends ecm's out to get programmed. Maybe you could help save us all some time and money with your experience. ------------------------- South Cakallaky
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amishmafia00 Posts: 53 Joined: Apr 2012

Monday July 09, 2012 21:19 << Amish you know ALOT about Detroits and troubleshooting ....... You wouldn't happen to be a tuner/gearhead now wouldya? Maybe even a tuner yourself the way you string those ?'s together. >> We have 17 detroits total in trucks and equipment. we swap detroits into just about everything. so far we've put detroits in inplace of m11's n14's 3408's 3406 and right now we're swaping out a 3412. So i've run into alot of things that you don't see every day. My favorite response when I call around trying to get help with a problem is "I've never had that happen before". We're not afraid to try anything once. earlier this year we sent a cam out to get reground to see if it would help anything. The closing ramps must have been too agressive because it ran a week and broke valves off and punched up through the head. we figured it was cause we tried to cheap out and run a used head. so we put it back together with a reconditioned head. a week later it did the same thing and another trashed head. we decided we must be a tooth off on the cam. so we pulled the cover and re timed everything. a week later it went again. so we pulled the regrind and put in an unmodified cam and it's been alright now. on our first swap into a piece of equipment we tried to run a truck tune and had some serious issues, on that one we swapped 3 heads in 2 days. so yes, I am definately a gearhead. The questions don't come from being a tuner the questions come from being a mechanic who see's a new issue just about every day.

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3rdGenDriver Posts: 25 Joined: Aug 2011	Tuesday July 10, 2012 17:06 Well nice ta meetcha. Where are yall located . Any EGR 14L's? ------------------------- South Cakallaky
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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012

Sunday August 12, 2012 18:48 Haven't checked in here in a while. For those asking for Saed's phone number, it is posted a few replies above. I am still loving my tune. The truck hauls ass and gets mileage numbers that I won't even mention because you guys would dispute them. Let's put it this way, I recently had a 305 mile round trip run that I was doing a few times a week, it included 142 loaded miles and the rest was me going to the shipper and returning empty to my shop. The loads were light, most were under 15k lbs and only one was 40k lbs so I am 31k lbs empty. I averaged over 12mpg on those runs and am still getting over 8mpg at 80k lbs regularly. My partner even accused me of losing fuel receipts because I just did not have many but we went online and I showed him the credit card activity and he could not believe it, I think he still has a hard time getting it (probably because he can never match it even driving my truck he always does quite a bit worse) Keep in mind that when I run this light in MI and OH were these runs were I don't run the engine over 1300 rpm and my tall gears allow me to cruise below 1200 rpm on the highway

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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012

Sunday August 12, 2012 19:17 budzwieko i sent mine to Said for the 600 horse 1850 torque,it was 400 $ ,sent it on a monday,got it back wednesday the next week,at first it didnt show much improvement,i got up to 5 mpg,then i had the injectors replaced with a six pack of 5915 injectors,had an overhead run and replaced the fuel pump,and intake gasket,im at 5.5-to 6 mpg now,i got 6.46 with a 25,000 lb load driving in the cool rain,it definitely has alot more power now pulling hills,on interstate with my 4.10 gears it runs at 1,650-1,800 rpm,the program seems to favor low rpm ,but my truck runs at high rpm and gets hot at low rpm with a load,for some reason ive lost my empty miles per gallon thouhg,when empty before,or pulling light 10,000 lb loads id get 8-10 mpg at 68 mph,which was always where my engine got its best fuel economy,but now it seems stuck at 6 mpg empty or loaded,and occasionally 5.5,but when everyone else is dropped down to 25-35 mph going up steep grades i whiz right by them up the hill at 65-70 mph,i think its a good program,but i think its better suited for trucks running high gears with low rpm sweet spot like yours,i think im still glad i did it thouhg ------------------------- are we there yet?

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adamslt Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 2012	Sunday August 12, 2012 19:21 and budzwieko is your transmission getting hot with the tune? mine has gone from 180 degrees before,to 210-215 now with the tune ------------------------- are we there yet?
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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012

Saturday August 18, 2012 08:04 I don't have a trans temp gauge so I do not know but I upgraded to the RTLO 16913 with a trans cooler a few years ago. If you are not pulling heavy loads you need to get rid of those 4.10 gears, they are killing you. I had 3.90s in a Freightliner with an M11 and the small motor liked them but it still revved too high and could have used something lower. If I knew how to post pictures on here I could show you that even 3.08 gears with an overdrive trans pull 130k lbs no sweat as I pull a rock crushing plant around. They are not good for taking off up a steep hill with that kind of weight but they still do just fine. I can downshift my truck a gear at 80mph which really surprises guys next to me when we are getting a run up a hill side by side. Only downside to those gears is you have to do a lot of shifting as I never try to pull hills in 13th gear so even driving around on relatively flat loads I downshift on little hills if I am heavy and below 70mph. This gear set up is not for "company" drivers who don't care, this is set up solely for me as I won't lug the motor because I am too lazy to shift

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bwdzieko Posts: 16 Joined: Jan 2012	Saturday August 18, 2012 08:12 Years ago, I took my buddy's truck out west, he had 3.73 with lo pro 22.5s, the truck got crappy mileage in the 5.5 range. I ended up running it for 2 days in California with their 55mph speed limit and the truck got over 7mpg. I think Detroits just won't get crap for fuel mileage without reducing the rpm significantly. What trans do you have? How heavy do you run?
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Friday October 19, 2012 16:52 just thought i would mention ,,went to englishtown diesel nationals,sept 15,,went a 15.90 at 90 mph,,i guess i need to do this more than every 10 years,,spun the tires bad ,got taken out 1st round,,try again when i get rich enough,was pretty happy with results ,not to bad for 21000 lb every day driver,as the saying goes you have to take it out and play with it every ounce in awhile,,

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ptours93 Posts: 45 Joined: Sep 2012	Wednesday October 24, 2012 18:17 grampa,that is still awesome,awesome,awesome! ------------------------- love my ddec 2 with 1.6 million miles.just did bullgear and cam bushings cuz i was gettin nervous.
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turboal Posts: 63 Joined: Jul 2012	Thursday October 25, 2012 04:42 Nice work grampa, I knee your engine in my 9900, I'm 16700 lbs soaking wet lol ------------------------- 2000 9900i eagle 12.7 13sp flat top 3.90's 526 cam , 500 +15% 5915 171702bw port/ceramic manifold straight 5" to 6" exhaust
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allan5oh Posts: 2 Joined: Dec 2012

Saturday December 08, 2012 12:03 I have a few questions here: 1) everyone talks about the 171702 turbo as if the 171701 doesn't exist. In the BW catalog it recommends the 171701 for 430/470 hp engines and 171702 for 500 hp engines. Yet for most applications the 171701 would be the better turbo. The only reason the 171702 turbo is recommended for the 500 hp engines is the extra rpms of these engines. I don't know anyone that uses the power above 1800 rpms. Even a turned up 12.7 wouldn't take advantage of the 171702 until above 1800 rpms. I've plotted this numerous times on BW matchbot. In fact the 67.7mm compressor seems to be the best match for day to day operations. This compressor wouldn't need anywhere near the fuel to spool up compared to the larger ones. 2) 15:1 compression vs 17:1 compression. Are the factory lower hp engines 17:1 and higher 15:1? If we can get away with 17:1 at 500 hp why not do that? Higher compression is more efficient, which means better mpg. I understand after a certain point you must lower the compression. Too much cylinder pressure can be very hard on engines.

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Saturday December 08, 2012 12:38 If you are trying to build power, the smaller turbo is going to choke the engine, and build exhaust heat too.
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allan5oh Posts: 2 Joined: Dec 2012	Saturday December 08, 2012 12:56 The 171701 would not "choke" the engine unless you're going over 40 psi and 1800 rpms. The compressor map is very favorable to day to day operations. Making huge boost at huge rpms on a dyno isn't part of that.
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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Saturday December 08, 2012 14:01 Heck, I cruise at 1800 @ 68mph. Not gonna work. I shift most the time @ 2100.
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stump Posts: 814 Joined: Aug 2007	Saturday December 08, 2012 15:45 I have ran both and I have had better performance and responce with the 171702 My truck will make almost 45lbs of boost under a hard pull and the 171701 would only give me 36 38 lbs . The 171702 spools up quick and I am happy with it myself.
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Saturday December 08, 2012 16:29 damn i must really be lost.i run a 177287, on a hard pull 55 lbs of boost with 45 lbs of exhaust pressure.ran last 2 weeks at only 80,000 ,82,000 [last 4,5 years at 102,000,107,000] can only average 6.6 to 6.8 pulling dump bucket on thruway.i still gotta say combination,combination,combination.......
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Saturday December 08, 2012 16:39 as far as compression goes,,lets say you are looking for total compression to be 25 to 1.....17 to 1 static plus boost.....or 15 to 1 with higher boost....same end result...except with lower static compression and more cold air supplied by higher boost you will increase HP and MPG,,along with lower water and pyro temps..just saying
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ptours93 Posts: 45 Joined: Sep 2012	Saturday December 08, 2012 17:41 you lost me here grampa,does that mean the 702 is better only if you add like inj and cam. ------------------------- love my ddec 2 with 1.6 million miles.just did bullgear and cam bushings cuz i was gettin nervous.
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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Saturday December 08, 2012 19:51 It is better for even just a stock engine with a 15% over program.
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Aussiedave Posts: 14 Joined: Jan 2013

Friday January 25, 2013 21:56 I'm seriously looking at purchasing a BW177287 for my S60 non EGR 575HP engine, I've had ECM reprogrammed and my stock turbo is a GT4708 so the BW171702 is more or less the same and will not fix my problem. Little info - I had 33psi of turbo boost at 1500rpm and then I installed a boost controller and now have 37psi at 1500rpm , but that's max boost the GT4708 wants to produce it builds boost very quick up to 1500rpm but I want a turbo that will keep building boost up to 1700rpm, and I've been advised by a good source that the BW177287 will achieve this for me. My question is if anyone can help, is what modification do I need to do to make this BW177287 fit my engine? Grampa mentioned he used one of these but had to modified the cold side?? My exact garret turbo spec number is GT4708BJNS Regards aussie Dave ------------------------- Detroit S60 Pre EGR 14 litre 650HP & 2100TQ Edited: Friday January 25, 2013 at 22:55 by Aussiedave

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slonlokw Posts: 5 Joined: Apr 2013

Friday April 05, 2013 17:26 1st of all thank you for all of the great information, I have followed this thread for a couple of years and have never posted but use the info as a guide fro sure. I have a 2000 premium 500 12.7, I have Erichs tune and 5915 injectors on his recommendation and am very happy with this combo, but like anyone else i want a little more, I recently blew a head gasket and figured while I had the head off I would replace the cam as well so I found a 23552526 to replace my 4912, my problem is have measured both cams and traced the profiles and they both appear to be identical. I have read where u said the 526 is a good upgrade to the 4912 so i am wondering where the differances are, maybe I missed it. Just double checking b4 I get it all back together. I will also be going to a fulltilt manifold and probably the 287 turbo. Again thanks to everyone that has been posting useful info and feedback.

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Rebel00127 Posts: 17 Joined: Jan 2012	Saturday April 06, 2013 05:33 If you check the cam timing you will find your difference. Its been a long time sense I checked one but I think the big difference was on the inj lobe.
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slonlokw Posts: 5 Joined: Apr 2013	Saturday April 06, 2013 07:39
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slonlokw Posts: 5 Joined: Apr 2013

Saturday April 06, 2013 08:03 Sorry for the blank post still figuring out this board, I was trying to reply to a post of Grandpa's, oh well. Thats what i was hoping to hear that maybe the timing was not the same and thats what makes the big differance, the base circle and lobe height seem to measure out the same, i cut out a template and traced both the intake and exhaust, and the profiles apear to be the same on both cams. I did not do that to the injector lobes. Short of installing both cams and degreeing them I wil have to take Grandpa's word, I don't doubt him at all, i'm just trying to verify that my new cam is what it supposed to be and not marked wrong from the factory or something like that. Thanks for any help, trying to get this all back together this weekend so I can get back to work.

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snapon2 Posts: 37 Joined: Jun 2009

Monday April 08, 2013 11:30 the 526 cam does work well, it will add about 40 whp on a stock 500hp engine. you are correct the lift is the same but the duration is different and the engine will run rough the manifold is a very good add on as it drops the pyro so you can add more fuel.as is the 287 turbo..post your dyno numbers if you can.. ------------------------- 25 year detroit diesel tech,gone trucking . have a 2007 f/l series 60 egr tri drive with 660 rwhp .egr removed

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snapon2 Posts: 37 Joined: Jun 2009	Monday April 08, 2013 11:37 << If you check the cam timing you will find your difference. Its been a long time sense I checked one but I think the big difference was on the inj lobe. >> question for rebel?? did you work with rienhart?? ------------------------- 25 year detroit diesel tech,gone trucking . have a 2007 f/l series 60 egr tri drive with 660 rwhp .egr removed
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slonlokw Posts: 5 Joined: Apr 2013

Monday April 08, 2013 14:40 << the 526 cam does work well, it will add about 40 whp on a stock 500hp engine. you are correct the lift is the same but the duration is different and the engine will run rough the manifold is a very good add on as it drops the pyro so you can add more fuel.as is the 287 turbo..post your dyno numbers if you can.. >> Just got it back together and went for about a 10 mile bobtail test drive, seems to run great way smoother and quiter than b4, I think that head gasket has been a problem longer than I thought. I didn't want to rod on it to hard but it seems to pull the same as b4 up to about 1700 then it seems to really take off and pull hard up past 2100,didn't go any further but suspect it will pull up 2400, 18-1900 rpm was about it b4, it will nice to see what it does loaded. I have the stock wastegate turbo on it right now(blew the other one). I will have to order a 287 turbo and exhaust manifold soon to see what we can really do, then go hit the dyno.

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Monday April 08, 2013 16:44 I'm curious to see what #s you get. I have been thinking about taking mine way back.
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Rebel00127 Posts: 17 Joined: Jan 2012	Monday April 08, 2013 17:06 << << . >> question for rebel?? did you work with rienhart?? >> No I don't think so
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Wednesday April 10, 2013 14:28 the lobe profile may be very close from cam to cam,but where is the lobe compared to the cam centerline,and where is it placed compared to the other lobes [overlap],and where when checked with a degree wheel..the only way i know is to check it in a fixture with a degree wheel and a dial indicator.and even then what rocker ratio do u have to figure lift and duration.all of these little things that alot of people don,t think about make huge differences in hp and mileage,,we all learn new things every day,when we stop learning chances are we are no longer naturally aspirated.. good luck,,

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slonlokw Posts: 5 Joined: Apr 2013

Thursday April 11, 2013 19:17 << the lobe profile may be very close from cam to cam,but where is the lobe compared to the cam centerline,and where is it placed compared to the other lobes [overlap],and where when checked with a degree wheel..the only way i know is to check it in a fixture with a degree wheel and a dial indicator.and even then what rocker ratio do u have to figure lift and duration.all of these little things that alot of people don,t think about make huge differences in hp and mileage,,we all learn new things every day,when we stop learning chances are we are no longer naturally aspirated.. good luck,, >> Got about 1000 miles on it, seems to be running real good. I put a call into erich and he pretty much told what to expect as far as performance and he was right on. Runs about the same up to 1700 and seems to run real sweet from 1700 to 2100 or so, I wouldn't say an earth moving gain in power yet as I still have my stock wastegate turbo on and it only builds about 33 psi, my other turbo was up around 45 psi, b4 the cam swap, so I cant wait to see what it will do with the 287. The motor just really seems to be happy in that 1700 on up range when I want to put it there, otherwise I cruze down the highway at 1625/65mph. I appreciate all the info that everyone has posted, hopefully mine will help.

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WideOpenTransit Posts: 1 Joined: Jul 2013

Sunday July 28, 2013 10:42 << ok your stock engine is like having a 18 year old son,he knows when to eat. sleep. go potty and so on.. your performance engine is like a newborn babe u must feed it, burp it,change the diapers put it to bed properly. that being said u must watch your gauges more closely.do u have a large enough radiator, is the rest of your cooling system in good shape. are u smarter than your ecm, it doesnt know u changed hard parts. next u will find that combinations of parts will work best. starting point is usually performance ecm, i get mine from erich at serious series 60. for best performance he needs to know what other hard parts u have changed, or are going to change...for u ddec2 owners start with your ecm u willnot believe the difference..if you r thinking u want more try the R5234795 injectors, and stock 500 cam R23524912, u will need 2 enlarge the cam gear hole for the larger cam bolt used on the newer engines >> Greetings to all you Horsepower green giants! Hello Grandpa, I have a question for you, what is your transmission you working with? I dont hear much about transmissions, RTLO 20913A, or RTLO 22918B is the transmission is what i am looking for. thanks you again for starting this thread you totally changed my driving experience. I drive about 67mph in 13 hole only turning 1350 rpms. Laredo,tx - Plainfield,In favorite weekly run. My Toy - Barracuda 1998 Century class Fleetair foam air filter 5915 injectors, Cam R23524912 is running 600hp, 1850 torque on ECM setting, RTLO 16713A rearend is 3.36's MPG 8.2 - 8.8 monthly ave. ------------------------- "Relentless Pursuit of Happines"

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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010

Monday July 29, 2013 07:48 i have a 2000 western star 4964fx with a 12.7 ,rtlo18718b,3.70 eaton rears..with 11r24.5 tires..the reason for the 187 version trans is the 10 spline output shaft ..the splines are square sided..on the newer 189, 209,trans they have i believe 23 splines,which are pointed on top..when you go into play mode with good hp the 23 spline yoke will try to climb the fine splines and will expand and split the yoke..the old style being square sided splines it drives on the side of the splines..

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loweredd Posts: 107 Joined: Jan 2009	Tuesday June 03, 2014 10:24 Grampa, what did you end up doing to the compressor cover discharge for the 177287?
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grampa Posts: 129 Joined: Sep 2010	Friday June 13, 2014 15:06 i bought a v band adapter ,machined the housing,and welded it together,everything bolts on the same as a stock turbo,,if u buy from area diesel they will do it for about $200..
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